Do you need a Q???

www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1094357

Maroczy-Lasker, New York, 1924

1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. e5 Nfd7 4. d4 e6 5. Nce2 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. f4 Be7 8. Nf3 0-0 9. g3 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nb6 11. Bh3 Bd7 12. 0-0 Rc8 13. g4 f6 14. exf6 Bxf6 15. g5 Be7 16. Kh1 Nc4 17. Nc3 Bb4 18. Qe2 Re8 19. Qd3 Nd6 20. f5 Nxf5 21. Nxd5 Bd6 22. Bxf5 exf5 23. Nf4 Re4 24. Qb3+ Kh8 25. Nh4 Nxd4 26. Qh3 Rc2 27. g6 Bc6 28. Nf3 h6 29. Ne6 Nxe6 30. Bxh6


30. ... Rh4! 0-1

And the Q of Lasker didn´t move all game long...

EDIT - score Lasker-Maroczy, 1896/1924: 5-2-1!

It would of been checkmate in 6, yep but if he didn't have the queen then it would of been a very even game after ..Rh2+, possibly with black having the advantage but it wouldn't be checkmate in 6 without the queen. 😉

Originally posted by Helder Octavio
[fen]3q3k/pp4p1/2bbn1PB/5p2/4r3/5N1Q/PPr4P/R4R1K b - - - 30[/fen]
30. ... Rh4! 0-1

And the Q of Lasker didn´t move all game long...

Cool. I can't think of another serious example from good Master games where the Q didn't move (except the trivial examples where she gets exchanged on d8/d1 early on.) Anyone know of any others?

I know a story about Kasparov not moving his queen even once in a 40+moves game against Piket...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/text/kaspeng.html

Originally posted by Papyn Chase
I know a story about Kasparov not moving his queen even once in a 40+moves game against Piket...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/text/kaspeng.html

Thanks for the link! The game mentioned in that link where that happened is against Topalov though...

Here are the moves:

Topalov,Veselin vs. Kasparov,Garry

1995, VSB Euwe Memorial - Round 3, Amsterdam NED, ECO B80

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be3 Nf6 7.f3 Be7 8.g4 O-O 9.Qd2 a6 10.O-O-O Nxd4 11.Bxd4 b5 12.Kb1 Bb7 13.h4 Rc8 14.g5 Nd7 15.Rg1 b4 16.Ne2 Ne5 17.Rg3 Nc4 18.Qc1 e5 19.Bf2 a5 20.Bg2 Ba6 21.Re1 a4 22.Bh3 Rc6 23.Qd1 d5 24.exd5 Rd6 25.f4 Rxd5 26.Rd3 Na3+ 27.bxa3 Bxd3 28.cxd3 Rxd3 0-1

Bit of a crush. I prefer the Lasker example.

EDIT. Apologies, you are correct. Kasparov also didn't move his queen in his game against Piket. As he lost, however, it is a less of a spectacle. Still here are the moves.

Piket,Jeroen vs. Kasparov,Garry

1995, VSB Euwe Memorial - Round 6, Amsterdam NED, ECO D97

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 O-O 7.e4 Na6 8.Be2 c5 9.d5 e6 10.O-O exd5 11.exd5 Re8 12.Rd1 Bf5 13.d6 h6 14.Bf4 Nd7 15.Rd2 Nb4 16.Qb3 Be6 17.Bc4 Nb6 18.Bxe6 Rxe6 19.Na4 Re4 20.Bg3 Nc4 21.Nxc5 Nxd2 22.Nxd2 Re2 23.Qxb4 a5 24.Qxb7 Rxd2 25.d7 Rxb2 26.Qd5 Rb5 27.Rd1 Bf8 28.Bd6 Bxd6 29.Qxd6 Rab8 30.h3 Rb1 31.Rxb1 Rxb1+ 32.Kh2 Rb6 33.Qe5 Kf8 34.Qh8+ Ke7 35.Qe5+ Kf8 36.f4 h5 37.Qd5 h4 38.Qe5 g5 39.Qh8+ Ke7 40.Qe5+ Kf8 41.fxg5 1-0

This isn't as horribly uncommon as one might think. Remember, not moving the queen is not the same as her not being there.

To see just how common this was I applied some filters to my TWIC database (containing TWIC updates totalling 500k recent games). With filters of ~b???d1x? (black doesn't take a piece on d1), ~wQd1?? (white does not move a queen from d1), ending in 1-0, game exceeds 20 moves and both players above 2500 I get around 44 games. Now remember the same would have to be done for the reverse (black doesn't move his queen and wins).

Also Magnus Carlsen fits the filter I put in twice in the past year which is quite amusing.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
This isn't as horribly uncommon as one might think. Remember, not moving the queen is not the same as her not being there.

To see just how common this was I applied some filters to my TWIC database (containing TWIC updates totalling 500k recent games). With filters of ~b???d1x? (black doesn't take a piece on d1), ~wQd1?? (white does not move a queen fro ...[text shortened]...
Also Magnus Carlsen fits the filter I put in twice in the past year which is quite amusing.

Cool. In the search for curiousa, perhaps the criteria needs narrowing. Any games with significant # moves and good players where *neither* player moved their queen, say?

Originally posted by TommyC
Cool. In the search for curiousa, perhaps the criteria needs narrowing. Any games with significant # moves and good players where *neither* player moved their queen, say?

Nothing exceeding 30 moves with players over 2500. Longest I can find overall (remember the test database contains almost exclusively *master games) is:

Zolnierowicz,K (2287) - Schmidt,W (2435) [C00]
5th Amplico AIG Life Warsaw POL (8), 17.12.2005

1.e4 e6 2.e5 c5 3.c3 d5 4.exd6 Bxd6 5.d4 Nf6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.Bb5 Bd7 9.0-0 a6 10.Bxc6 Bxc6 11.Ne5 h6 12.Be3 Bxe3 13.fxe3 Nd7 14.Nd2 Rc8 15.Nd3 f6 16.Rf4 g5 17.Rb4 Rc7 18.Nf3 Ke7 19.e4 Nc5 20.Nf2 Nd3 21.h4 Bd5 22.Rb6 Rc4 23.Nd4 Ra4 24.g3 Ra5 25.b3 Rc5 26.Ne2 Bxb3 27.Rd6 Bd5 28.Rb1 b5 29.Nc1 Rc4 30.Rb2 Bxe4 31.Rb1 Bb7 32.Nfxd3 Kxd6 33.Ne5+ 0-1

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Nothing exceeding 30 moves with players over 2500. Longest I can find overall (remember the test database contains almost exclusively *master games) is:

Zolnierowicz,K (2287) - Schmidt,W (2435) [C00]
5th Amplico AIG Life Warsaw POL (8), 17.12.2005

1.e4 e6 2.e5 c5 3.c3 d5 4.exd6 Bxd6 5.d4 Nf6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.Bb5 Bd7 9.0-0 a6 10.Bxc6 Bxc6 11.N ...[text shortened]... 32.Nfxd3 Kxd6 33.Ne5+ 0-1
[fen]3q3r/1b6/p2kpp1p/1p2N1p1/2r4P/2P3P1/P7/1RNQ2K1 b - - 0 33[/fen]

I think there must be an error in that PGN - so many of the moves don't make sense.

Eg, not 14. Nxf7? Not 14. ... Nxe5? Not 20. Q or N xd3? Not 22. exd5? Not 23. or 25. ... Qxb6? etc - there are many more!

Originally posted by TommyC
I think there must be an error in that PGN - so many of the moves don't make sense.

Eg, not 14. Nxf7? Not 14. ... Nxe5? Not 20. Q or N xd3? Not 22. exd5? Not 23. or 25. ... Qxb6? etc - there are many more!

Who knows. I didn't play it, I just found it.

Here's another:

Bielicki,C (2289) - Bentancor,F (2177) [E63]
II American Continental Buenos Aires ARG (4), 21.08.2003
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.Nc3 d6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 a6 8.Bg5 Bg4 9.Rc1 Nd7 10.d5 Bxf3 11.exf3 Nd4 12.Re1 Re8 13.Re4 h6 14.Be3 e5 15.dxe6 Nxe6 16.Bd2 c6 17.Re1 Ne5 18.Bf1 Nd4 19.Re3 d5 20.cxd5 cxd5 21.b3 Ndc6 22.Re1 Nb4 23.Ra1 Rc8 24.f4 d4 25.Ne4 Ned3 26.Bxb4 Nxb4 27.Bc4 b5 28.a3 bxc4 29.axb4 d3 30.Rxa6 Rxe4 31.Rxe4 c3 32.Rc4 Rxc4 33.bxc4 c2 0-1

Originally posted by Helder Octavio
www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1094357

Maroczy-Lasker, New York, 1924

1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. e5 Nfd7 4. d4 e6 5. Nce2 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. f4 Be7 8. Nf3 0-0 9. g3 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nb6 11. Bh3 Bd7 12. 0-0 Rc8 13. g4 f6 14. exf6 Bxf6 15. g5 Be7 16. Kh1 Nc4 17. Nc3 Bb4 18. Qe2 Re8 19. Qd3 Nd6 20. f5 Nxf5 21. Nxd5 Bd6 22. Bxf5 exf5 23. Nf4 Re4 24. Qb ...[text shortened]... d the Q of Lasker didn´t move all game long...

EDIT - score Lasker-Maroczy, 1896/1924: 5-2-1!

yes he did need a queen. otherwise white could have won simply by playing
31. Qxh4

Originally posted by Jusuh
yes he did need a queen. otherwise white could have won simply by playing
31. Qxh4

Yeah, but if it was move 30, he wouldn't of moved to Rh4 if he had no queen. 😉

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Who knows. I didn't play it, I just found it.

Here's another:

Bielicki,C (2289) - Bentancor,F (2177) [E63]
II American Continental Buenos Aires ARG (4), 21.08.2003
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.Nc3 d6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 a6 8.Bg5 Bg4 9.Rc1 Nd7 10.d5 Bxf3 11.exf3 Nd4 12.Re1 Re8 13.Re4 h6 14.Be3 e5 15.dxe6 Nxe6 16.Bd2 c6 17.Re1 Ne5 18.Bf1 Nd4 19. ...[text shortened]... Rc4 Rxc4 33.bxc4 c2 0-1


[fen]3q2k1/5pb1/R5pp/8/1PP2P2/3p2P1/2p2P1P/3Q2K1 w - - 0 34[/fen]

Cute, a good find. Thanks.