Originally posted by big barNo, there is not an infinite number of possible moves in chess. It simply seems that way.
i question it's existence to the point that for something to exist it must have an end or a beginning( matter etc.) so, is there an infinite amount of possiblities to the possible moves of the aggregate of all chess games ever played?
The number of possible game of chess is most definitely finite. However, that number, as yet, remains undefined. A common estimate that gets bantered about is 10^120, while the number of atoms in the universe is estimated at 10^82. A mathematician and chess researcher that I've corresponded with assures me that 10^120 is a reasonable estimate of the number of possible legal chess games up to forty moves long, and not subject to draw claims (due to repetition of position). The total number of possible sequences of moves would be much higher, of course.
Originally posted by WulebgrRecently I've seen 10^10^50 as the number of total positions (Hardy 1997).
The number of possible game of chess is most definitely finite. However, that number, as yet, remains undefined. A common estimate that gets bantered about is 10^120, while the number of atoms in the universe is estimated at 10^82. A mathematician and chess researcher that I've corresponded with assures me that 10^120 is a reasonable estimate of the number ...[text shortened]... n of position). The total number of possible sequences of moves would be much higher, of course.
You are right 10^120 seems to be positions by move 40.
thank you, i have heard such figures and thus the quandry--- the universal atom count is objective and subject to enourmous doubt as to it's very substance. there in lies the problem... i wrestle with ( today anyway) that is why chess is so challenging to so many minds . by the way, and i could be incorrect but, those possible or better yet probable chess moves do not include the variance that would encompass all of the games played in the history of chess against each individual player that has actually moved a chess piece. which is to say,a model that would look at how you played a certain game in history ( say one famous by one of the five greats) and contrast that to how i would have played that game against the very same player... and then replicat that by the amount of games played , etc etc.
Originally posted by big barLearn how to capitalize and write coherant sentences before ruminating on infinity and predestiny.
thank you, i have heard such figures and thus the quandry--- the universal atom count is objective and subject to enourmous doubt as to it's very substance. there in lies the problem... i wrestle with ( today anyway) that is why chess is so challenging to so many minds . by the way, and i could be incorrect but, those possible or better yet probable chess ...[text shortened]... against the very same player... and then replicat that by the amount of games played , etc etc.
It's quite allright wildfire, most will say that it clearly relates to chess on so many planes , how can a game with such finite borders allow such infinite possibilities. which.. could lead to one of my nine follow up questions which could include such topics as how many more moves are undiscovered for the pure virtue that a move still has not been performed so there can be no countermove ... yet. anyway, thanks. b.
Originally posted by big barYou didn't bother the forum. You asked a serious and relevant question, and there's nothing wrong with that. As far as having a definite finite number to answer your question, it simply isn't possible to achieve that at this point and time. The only answers that can be provided are theoretical at best, and there are a multitude of people searching for an answer that may never be solved. Not in my lifetime anyways.
well, you get my point, at least. i just find it odd that nobody seems to have a finite number when asked this question. sorry to have bothered the forum. b. p.s not large on capitalization. sry.
If computer processing speed continues to double every 15-18 months, as it has since the mid-1960s, and if strong computers continue to work on calculations regarding the possibilities of chess, we may get a reasonable estimate of the upper limit in the lifetime of most of us.
Here a link for you chess, math, and computer types: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~flab/chess/chess.html
There are 2.5 x 10^116 different possible games of chess of 40 moves per player or fewer. By comparison, there are an estimated 10^79 electrons in the known universe.
When a computer looks ahead from a position during play, each successive single move (a ply) costs about a factor of 6 in computing power.