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  1. 09 Sep '12 11:38
    Thats what you strong players tell me. But if this is true why do chess engines do it? explain
  2. Standard member mikelom
    Ajarn
    09 Sep '12 11:58
    Originally posted by tim88
    Thats what you strong players tell me. But if this is true why do chess engines do it? explain
    Ask RJ HINDS, he'll show you how on the game analysis board.

    -m.

    Jokes aside, you ought not to move her until you have established a good defence/attack situ. Why? 1. Cos if you're not in control, and you bring her out early then she's likely to be attacked until she has no home to run to, and you'll be opening your back lines like there's no tomorrow.

    2. Work on 1 first.
  3. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    09 Sep '12 16:23
    Originally posted by tim88
    Thats what you strong players tell me. But if this is true why do chess engines do it? explain
    Because their opening book has been switched off?
  4. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Sep '12 21:50
    Originally posted by tim88
    Thats what you strong players tell me. But if this is true why do chess engines do it? explain
    When I first began play and got checkmated with the scholars mate. I tried it out against other opponents and sometimes it worked. Later, I moved the queen out on my 2nd move and many times my opponents would forget about protecting the king pawn and attack my queen with the knight or, better for me, the knight pawn. So sometimes it works, if you are playing aganist beginning players. But I would agree that if you move your queen out within the first 3 moves that you have missed a better move, unless your opponent has blundered.
  5. 10 Sep '12 02:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tim88
    Thats what you strong players tell me. But if this is true why do chess engines do it? explain
    Who told you that? It's untrue that all strong players never move one's
    'queen within the first 3 moves'. Why might a chess engine do it?
    Perhaps because the chess engine has not listened to such ignorance.

    In the French Defence, 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2 has been played by many GMs.
    It was a particular favourite of Mikhail Chigorin. At Beijing 2011,
    Karjakin (FIDE 2763) played it and won against Vallejo Pons (FIDE 2705).
    A look through an opening database shows that more than a few players
    who are rated FIDE 2500+ have played 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2.
  6. 10 Sep '12 04:26
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Who told you that? It's untrue that all strong players never move one's
    'queen within the first 3 moves'. Why might a chess engine do it?
    Perhaps because the chess engine has not listened to such ignorance.

    In the French Defence, 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2 has been played by many GMs.
    It was a particular favourite of Mikhail Chigorin. At Beijing 2011,
    Karjaki ...[text shortened]... base shows that more than a few players
    who are rated FIDE 2500+ have played 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2.
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1339053

  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Sep '12 04:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Who told you that? It's untrue that all strong players never move one's
    'queen within the first 3 moves'. Why might a chess engine do it?
    Perhaps because the chess engine has not listened to such ignorance.

    In the French Defence, 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2 has been played by many GMs.
    It was a particular favourite of Mikhail Chigorin. At Beijing 2011,
    Karjaki ...[text shortened]... base shows that more than a few players
    who are rated FIDE 2500+ have played 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2.
    A chess engine is programmed by a human, who does not always program the computer to make the best move. In your example, 2.Qe2 is not the best move, but it does not harm white because of the pawn structure in the French defense and when black plays the normal 2...d5, then 3. exd5 requires black, in recapturing the pawn, to move his queen out early where it can be attacked with 4.Nc3.

    Some chess players prefer an opening variation that has not been extensively analyzed, but still give about equal winning chances. It is usually considered an advantage to play a variation that you know well and perhaps your opponent is not prepared for. However, it is not ignorance on the part of the masters that give the general advice not to develop the queen too early.
  8. 10 Sep '12 20:52
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    A chess engine is programmed by a human, who does not always program the computer to make the best move. In your example, 2.Qe2 is not the best move, but it does not harm white because of the pawn structure in the French defense and when black plays the normal 2...d5, then 3. exd5 requires black, in recapturing the pawn, to move his queen out early where it ...[text shortened]... ance on the part of the masters that give the general advice not to develop the queen too early.
    I don't need RJHinds's condescending 'instruction' on chess. Whenever I am
    inclined to seek instruction on chess, it would be from someone who has far
    greater comprehension than RJHinds does of chess. I don't take RJHinds
    seriously at all as a commentator on chess. While I suppose that, using his
    magical 'analysis board', he could evaluate positions to the exact centipawn,
    RJHinds seems to have no greater understanding of chess than an average club
    player who has read some chess books for novices. As far as I can tell, what
    RJHinds has written about chess seems either trivially correct or quite wrong.

    I note that RJHinds apparently continues to misrepresent what I have written.
    1) In his original post, Tim88 apparently claimed that all strong players
    would not move their queen 'within the first 3 moves' of their games.
    2) I pointed out that the French Defence's Chigorin Variation, 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2
    (which has been played by more than a few GMs) is a counterexample.
    3) I did *not* assert that 2 Qe2 is White's 'best move', which RJHinds has been
    busy criticising. I already knew that 2 d4 is White's most common move.
    4) I did *not* assert, contrary to what RJHinds has insinuated, that it's 'ignorance
    on the part of the masters that give the general advice not to develop the
    queen too early' (to quote RJHinds). I wrote nothing at all about 'the general
    advice not to develop the queen too early'.
    5) My point was that it's ignorant to assume that all strong players never
    would move their queen 'within the first 3 moves' of their games. I cited
    the particular case of the French Defence's Chigorin Variation, 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2

    Among other strong GMs, Vasily Smyslov played 1 e4 e6 2 Qe2 as White.
    If Smyslov were still alive, perhaps RJHinds would like to explain to him why
    he failed to understand some basic principles of chess openings.
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Sep '12 22:53 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I don't need RJHinds's condescending 'instruction' on chess. Whenever I am
    inclined to seek instruction on chess, it would be from someone who has far
    greater comprehension than RJHinds does of chess. I don't take RJHinds
    seriously at all as a commentator on chess. While I suppose that, using his
    magical 'analysis board', he could evaluate positio him why
    he failed to understand some basic principles of chess openings.
    I am sorry for my misunderstanding of what you said or did not say in your post. But on the other hand, I did not say I was a commentor on chess that you should take seriously; and I do not evaluate positions in centipawns. I use the full point system of material evaluation that is recommended by the majority of masters. You are right that I am just an average club player that has read a few chess books and need to read a lot more to even approach master level.

    Are you now claiming to be a commentor on chess that should be taken seriously and that RJHinds' comments are not worthy of any notice and should be viewed with contempt?
  10. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Sep '12 23:13 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by maxlange
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1339053

    This is one of the openings I was talking about earlier that I used to try against some players of lesser strength in hopes of getting an early win a little ove 30 years ago. But you see here that a player rated over 300 points less was able to get a draw against a 2800 player who used this early queen opening.

    P.S. Excuse me, Nakamura was only rated over 2600 at that time, so the difference in ratings was only a little over 100 points instead of 300.
  11. 11 Sep '12 00:10
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    This is one of the openings I was talking about earlier that I used to try against some players of lesser strength in hopes of getting an early win a little ove 30 years ago. But you see here that a player rated over 300 points less was able to get a draw against a 2800 player who used this early queen opening.

    P.S. Excuse me, Nakamura was only rated o ...[text shortened]... 600 at that time, so the difference in ratings was only a little over 100 points instead of 300.
    The interesting part (if I recall correctly) is he only stopped playing it after the 2...Nf6 gambit started to dent white.

    I guess this early queen move is just to upset the opponent ala Karpov-Miles 1...a6


    A note I see in "Chess Openings for Black, Explained" (Alburt,Dzindzi, Perelshteyn) calls 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Qe7 "offbeat but sound" . . . Ive never seen that used before.
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    11 Sep '12 06:41
    Originally posted by maxlange
    The interesting part (if I recall correctly) is he only stopped playing it after the 2...Nf6 gambit started to dent white.

    I guess this early queen move is just to upset the opponent ala Karpov-Miles 1...a6


    A note I see in "Chess Openings for Black, Explained" (Alburt,Dzindzi, Perelshteyn) calls 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Qe7 "offbeat but sound" . . . Ive never seen that used before.
    1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 is called the Patzer Opening for a reason. But I have won some games with it and even against that 2. Nf6 gambit. But of course I was playing other weak players (Patzers) myself.

    1.e4 e5 2. Qe7 is called the Gunderan Defense. No one has ever played that one against me. But I think White should get out of the opening just fine by continuing with normal developement. Some chess players think it may have good possibilities. Below is a link to a video about it:

    YouTube
  13. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    11 Sep '12 14:57
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 is called the Patzer Opening for a reason. But I have won some games with it and even against that 2. Nf6 gambit. But of course I was playing other weak players (Patzers) like myself.
    FIX'D
  14. 11 Sep '12 18:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    ...You are right that I am just an average club player that has read a few
    chess books and need to read a lot more to even approach master level.

    Are you now claiming to be a commentor on chess that should be taken seriously and that RJHinds' comments are not worthy of any notice and should be viewed with contempt?
    "I am just an average club player that has read a few chess books
    and need to read a lot more to even approach master level."
    --RJHinds

    And that would be enough to explain your (RJHinds's) 2259 rating at RHP?
    Fat Lady, who has an (OTB) ECF grade of almost 200, is rated 2147 at RHP.

    In my earlier post, I was saying that I think that I have nothing to learn from
    you (RJHinds) about chess, and whenever I would seek chess instruction, it
    would be from players who are far stronger than you. I was *not* saying that
    I think that your comments on chess are always wrong or that they always
    would be worthless for every other player at RHP. Many players at RHP seem
    much weaker than you, and your comments that seem trivially correct to me
    might be helpful to those players. They should keep in mind, however, that
    many of your comments on chess are wrong or at least quite misleading.

    As Paul Leggett has noted, recently you (RJHinds) dismissed one of Fat Lady's
    chess ideas as 'stupid' without giving any explanation. You should consider
    becoming less arrogant and showing more respect toward much stronger players.
    Indeed, you should consider showing more respect in general toward people who
    seem different from yourself.
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    12 Sep '12 07:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I am just an average club player that has read a few chess books
    and need to read a lot more to even approach master level."
    --RJHinds

    And that would be enough to explain your (RJHinds's) 2259 rating at RHP?
    Fat Lady, who has an (OTB) ECF grade of almost 200, is rated 2147 at RHP.

    In my earlier post, I was saying that I think that I have nothin consider showing more respect in general toward people who
    seem different from yourself.
    Fat Lady has not played a game on RHP in over 2 years. It is not likely that a rating increase will result from not playing; after all, we all start out at P1200. Perhaps Fat Lady does not put as much effort into the RHP games that I do since there seems to be a lack of interest on the part of Fat Lady. But I don't care about Fat Lady anyway, you are the only one I'm interested in, sweetheart.

    P.S. By the way, I'm just a redneck living in Georgia, now.