This is a position from a game I just finished (and won with a lot of luck). The position was reached after: 1. c4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 a6 4. Bg2 e6 5. d3 Nf6 6. e4 Qc7 7. Nf3 h6 8. Be3 b6 9. O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 Be7, but that is not the question at hand.
In the game I played h4?? which was a terrible move. After playing it I wondered what would happen if I had played to open the centre, and pressure on the d-file, with the idea of going in for the endgame. So here it is, what is your assessment of the position? What would you play? And, most importantly, how do you think the ending would unfold, favourable for white, equal, black?
Also, please post examples of other positions were you think about the ensuing endgame when making a strategic decision, or decide the course of action, in the beginning of the middle game.
Originally posted by orion25reminds me of the good old days I used to play the english all the time 🙂. If by "playing to open the center" you mean d5, I think that would be a mistake, I can't exactly tell why though, probably because you'd need to lose time dealing with your c and e pawns, and besides, I think white's position looks very promising for a king-side attack, it should be black to try to break the center.
[fen]r3k2r/1bqpbpp1/ppn1pn1p/2p5/2P1P3/2NPBNP1/PP1Q1PBP/R4RK1 w kq - 0 11[/fen]
This is a position from a game I just finished (and won with a lot of luck). The position was reached after: 1. c4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 a6 4. Bg2 e6 5. d3 Nf6 6. e4 Qc7 7. Nf3 h6 8. Be3 b6 9. O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 Be7, but that is not the question at hand.
In the game I played h4?? ...[text shortened]... aking a strategic decision, or decide the course of action, in the beginning of the middle game.
I think I would go h3, you don't want to let Ng4 and exchange that beautiful bishop hitting on h6.
And then you'd need to see which side black will castle. If they castle kingside, then you'd need to calculate to death the h3 sacrifice, and if it doesn't work, try to prepare it with Ne2 (to later join the attack with Nf4), and if still there's nothing, maybe go for f4, first preparing it with Nh2.
in the meantime, you should always take measures for black's d5 break.
just my 50 cents.
First things first, the pawn structure (Always first in my assessments)
So with the pawn structure stripped of its pieces, and the skeleton
of the position is in sight:
I personally like blacks pawn structure a little better than whites.
Why? Well, even though black has less space, black does afford
a solid pawn strucure. White has a small liability at d3, and the
g pawn's advance weakens the long diagnal slightly. Black has a
long open diagnal at b8 to f4 available. Also, the long light diagnal
is semi-open, and puts slightly more pressure on d3.
Black has had less committing pawn moves, and still has options open
with f5 and d5 depending on piece activity of course 🙂
Secondly King safety! This part is rather important, so we'll
have to take a look at it and ensure we're not in any trouble here
White is slightly higher...however only temporarily. The white kings
safety is greatly elevated due to the placment of his pieces.
Blacks King safety is greatly elevated due to the power of his pawns.
When neither has his pieces nearby (and after blacks castle) black's
king is safer. White, as long as his fianchetto is held, seems
very safe. Here once again, we see e4 is very important, as it is
the shield to the g2 bishop, note how this pawn is either a shield
(in this position) or a self cemented problem (if black yields no
bishop on b7).
So now with the pawn skeleton in mind, and our relative king safety
seeming out of question currently, white can now behold the position.
The first two assessments both contain hightened importance on e4
and d3... All focus seems on these central light squares.
From the earlier assessments, a selection of moves appears rather
clearly. First, Rad1 Where 1. Rad1 O-O 2. d4 cxd4 3. Nxd4 and here I
think black may play Ne5, but thats up for assessment.
It seems clear now, white has centralization privliges however, if we
make a similar assessment on this position, we'll see the pressure
on e4 has built up. We'll see that after Rc8 blacks open file will
unload as black releases his energy (hence Ne5 instead of recapture).
Here blacks e7 bishop just seems to be getting stronger and stronger.
As pressure builds in favor of black on the queenside, the dark
squared bishop becomes more and more effective. So I don't much like
Rd1.
Secondly we have d4!... where the same problem occurs, only
without Rd1, and delaying blacks O-O, however this doesn't seem to
be of any great gain, and to me it seems to give black the go ahead.
(This really has the same issues as above... so no d4)
Third, h3 seems sensible, stopping Ng4. However, I personally
rule this move out myself, very quickly because I don't mind Ng4.
Ng4 and Bf4 and now white has accomplished something! After Bf4
black has a probable response in d6 weakening that strong dark bishop
and skewering the pawn to the queen. This greatly enhances the
pressure on black. So to me, h3, defends a non-issue.
Finally (in the interest of time, other variants I looked at have
been tossed) Rb1. What does the very ugly Rb1 contain? Well first
lets understand the first response is either Ng4 (wouldn't that be
nice) but most likely is O-O. Leaving us
From here, a very simple move appeals to my eyes... Bf4 where once
again blacks most solid response takes place in d6 with the skewer
and now a very simple move peaks out, how about a3? Now we see White
has loaded b4! applying new pressure to c5, with a new discovered
threat seems possible with the rooks behind. Now the c5 pawn has
liabily issues in any type of recapture. So now blacks decisions
are more difficult, but say black plays Ng4 (probably not) we take
a look at the underlying idea, b4! - and where I'd personally steer
the game.
So what does all of this have to do with an ending? 🙂
Once again...we evaluate the pawns
Now white has afforded more space, and while d3 is still a problem,
its weakness is much less pressured in appearance. From here, you
should be able to make an assessment as to which pawn structure your
more comfortable with, and thats what matters. Here, all this space
and knowing a hole will be opening up on the queenside, I like the
way the ending can go. Prying open the a or b file should greatly
reduce blacks energy, as he'll have some enormous relocation needs.
So while it doesn't approach the ending (as its very far away) this
is how I'd prepare for an ending, and how I'd attack the position
of a player with a solid pawn structure.
-GIN
Originally posted by NowakowskiYes indeed by opening up the centre I meant d4, but perhaps also the idea of playing f4 and e5 at the right moment, though I'm not sure that is even playable, as black has lots of time to counter it, it probably isn't so forget it...
[fen]r3k2r/1bqpbpp1/ppn1pn1p/2p5/2P1P3/2NPBNP1/PP1Q1PBP/R4RK1 w kq - 0 11[/fen]
First things first, the pawn structure (Always first in my assessments)
So with the pawn structure stripped of its pieces, and the skeleton
of the position is in sight:
[fen]8/3p1pp1/pp2p2p/2p5/2P1P3/3P2P1/PP3P1P/8 w - - 0 11 [/fen]
I personally like blacks pawn str ...[text shortened]... and how I'd attack the position
of a player with a solid pawn structure.
-GIN
I don't agree with your acessment of h2, I not only think it is a good move but also an essential move. Say for example Rb1 is played:
After 11.... Ng4 12.Bf4 e5! 13.Be3 Nxe3 14.Qxe3 Nd4 (now or later? not shure)
Were black is clearly better (even if white now manages to remove the knight from its post, black will always be able to compensate by opening the game for his bishops with, for example f5 or b5).
Anyhow, I must agree that d4 is not sound and it is probably best to play on the queen side, if, in fact you are playing with the endgame in mind. (BTW, great analysis, thanks nowakowsky, Rfb1!, great find, I guess that makes the difference between good and reasonable players...), but I also find it interesting how you would evaluate the position after (in terms of the possible endgame still) 11.h3 0-0 12.Nh2 d6 13.f4 Rad8 (or something else) 14.f5:
Originally posted by orion25I agree Ng4 is the solution for black to counter the good move Rb1, but I think white can maintain an equal or small advantage with the capture fxe3.
Yes indeed by opening up the centre I meant d4, but perhaps also the idea of playing f4 and e5 at the right moment, though I'm not sure that is even playable, as black has lots of time to counter it, it probably isn't so forget it...
I don't agree with your acessment of h2, I not only think it is a good move but also an essential move. Say for example Rb1 i ...[text shortened]... e) 14.f5:
[fen]3r1rk1/1bq1bpp1/ppnppn1p/2p2P2/2P1P3/2NPB1PP/PP1Q2BN/R4RK1 b - - 0 14[/fen]
11.... Ng4 12.Bf4 e5! 13.Be3 Nxe3 14.fxe3! is better than Qxe3. now, example 14... Qd6 15.Nd5 Bd8 16.a3 Ne7 17.b4 Nxd5 18.exd5 cxb4 19.axb4
Originally posted by RegicidalYes, that is very interesting, I didn't even consider it, and yes, that changes the whole game, that move changes it all, white is suddenly much better on any side of the board (well, perhaps black has some nice option for a king-attack, but still...), see the position:
I agree Ng4 is the solution for black to counter the good move Rb1, but I think white can maintain an equal or small advantage with the capture fxe3.
11.... Ng4 12.Bf4 [b]e5! 13.Be3 Nxe3 14.fxe3! is better than Qxe3. now, example 14... Qd6 15.Nd5 Bd8 16.a3 Ne7 17.b4 Nxd5 18.exd5 cxb4 19.axb4[/b]
Also love this position (reached in your variation)
Originally posted by NowakowskiI have to say, it looks ugly for a reason... Rab1 maybe, but Rfb1 is a ?? in my book. In fact I believe it's one of the worst legal moves for white, but that's just me 🙂.
[b]Finally (in the interest of time, other variants I looked at have
been tossed) Rb1. What does the very ugly Rb1 contain? [/b]
Originally posted by orion25it locks the a1 rook. does the job that the a1 rook is supposed to do. leaves f1, which is usually opened later on (with the f4-f5 advance). in many set ups, again, takes away all squares like c1,d1,e1, even h1 in some crazy king attack situations (with h4-h5 advance etc) from BOTH rooks.
why?
Imagine you need a rook on b1 (or c1 or d1) AND one on f1 (which is usually the case in English). That would mean white has spent 3 tempos to do that (Rfb1 - Rf1 - Rab1/c1/d1), instead of one (Rab1/c1/d1).
this position you have mentioned you liked on the above post illustrates this very well. Would you rather have rooks on b1 and f1 or a1 and b1.
Originally posted by orion25Sorry to kill the party there, but...
Yes indeed by opening up the centre I meant d4, but perhaps also the idea of playing f4 and e5 at the right moment, though I'm not sure that is even playable, as black has lots of time to counter it, it probably isn't so forget it...
I don't agree with your acessment of h2, I not only think it is a good move but also an essential move. Say for example Rb1 i ...[text shortened]... e) 14.f5:
[fen]3r1rk1/1bq1bpp1/ppnppn1p/2p2P2/2P1P3/2NPB1PP/PP1Q2BN/R4RK1 b - - 0 14[/fen]
Is the position you quote....
but the line you list...I think it'd be ok for white...
White seems to be fine after 11... Ng4 12.Bf4 e5! 13. Nd5!
Originally posted by Nowakowskiok we overloked that immediate Nd5 but even so black might survive it, after ...Qd8 and ..d6. white's knight will be exchanged off but white is fine.
Sorry to kill the party there, but...
[fen]r3k2r/1bqpbpp1/ppn1pn1p/2p5/2P1P3/2NPBNP1/PP1Q1PBP/RR4K1 w kq - 0 11 [/fen]
Is the position you quote....
but the line you list...I think it'd be ok for white...
[fen]r3k2r/1bqpbpp1/ppn4p/2pNp3/2P1PBn1/3P1NP1/PP1Q1PBP/RR4K1 b kq - 1 13 [/fen]
White seems to be fine after 11... Ng4 12.Bf4 e5! 13. Nd5!
So scrap e5, It remains that Rfb1 Ng4 is correct and black can improve by Bf4 d6!, h3 Nge5 making Rfb1 questionable.
Originally posted by RegicidalAlright, I like it,
ok we overloked that immediate Nd5 but even so black might survive it, after ...Qd8 and ..d6. white's knight will be exchanged off but white is fine.
So scrap e5, It remains that Rfb1 Ng4 is correct and black can improve by Bf4 d6!, h3 Nge5 making Rfb1 questionable.
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 O-O 15. b4!
and here Nxf3 is slightly delayed...although here it may not be the
best, Black has some relocation issues, and a rook looks fine on
d8, b8, and e8...
Now what if Nxf3 isn't delayed... then what does white have?
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1
Again, I still don't mind that rook being on b1. There isn't going
to be an easy refutation to Rb1. For black to create any kind of
pressure that relocates the b1 rook, black will need to spend a vast
amound of time, in which white will have shored up his pawn structure
gained space and strengthened his center upon relocation of the rook.
Originally posted by philidor positionWell, I admit b1 and f1 looks nicer. But I don't think it would make any sense to have a rook on b1 at all, if there is none on a1. See If you are going to play on the queen side, the rooks on a1 and b1 make a perfect pair, supporting the pawns very well. But only one on b1 wouldn't achieve nearly as much.
Would you rather have rooks on b1 and f1 or a1 and b1.
You have to set your priorities, If you are going to play on the queen side, by all means, use both rooks, If you are going to play on the king side, use both rooks (unless you really must use the rook for defensive purposes).
In the position I gave I would prefer both rooks on the f-file. As the position so dictates, but we were analysing what happens on the queen side so...
Originally posted by orion25orion25, I hate to sound like I'm bragging but I happen know some theory on English, I've also done a great deal of analysis of games I played in the English and what you're suggesting in this post is wrong.
Well, I admit b1 and f1 looks nicer. But I don't think it would make any sense to have a rook on b1 at all, if there is none on a1. See If you are going to play on the queen side, the rooks on a1 and b1 make a perfect pair, supporting the pawns very well. But only one on b1 wouldn't achieve nearly as much.
You have to set your priorities, If you are going t ...[text shortened]... -file. As the position so dictates, but we were analysing what happens on the queen side so...
Originally posted by philidor positionI won't contest your knowledge of the english or of chess or anything, but I'd be glad If you would explain exactly why I'm wrong. In the interest of knowledge tell me, exactly why is it better to have the rooks on b1 and f1, than both on the kingside or both on the queenside? I'd say place them were you are planing to act.
orion25, I hate to sound like I'm bragging but I happen know some theory on English, I've also done a great deal of analysis of games I played in the English and what you're suggesting in this post is wrong.