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  1. 06 Apr '09 13:49
    OK people say it's a bad move but... 3 ...f6 in the Ruy Lopez..

    Below's a game from uchess... it's not very sound I'm afraid after move 11, just the most recent case..
    For black there is no intention of 0-0 the plan is to use f6 to attack whites castle... also pinning the knight with Bg4 & if possible Bc5 pinning the f2 pawn.
    With this in place white can't drive a way the bishop on g4 easily with h3 as black can play h5 If the bishop is taken it's a checkmating position.

    I rely on this trap a lot, perhaps because to many people take the bishop. I wonder is it at all sound though? (A few players try BxN, Nxe5 like the damiano.. this doesn't work but d4 is a problem )


    (Insert PGN isn't working for me for some reason... in this game i think h5 was unsound and white should have won)
    1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-b5 f7-f6 4. O-O Bf8-c5 5. c2-c3 a7-a6 6. Bb5-a4 b7-b5 7. Ba4-b3 d7-d6 8. h2-h3 h7-h5 9. d2-d4 Bc5-a7 10. Bc1-e3 Bc8-g4 11. h3xg4 h5xg4 12. Nf3-h2 f6-f5 13. g2-g3 f5-f4 14. Be3-c1 Qd8-g5 15. Kg1-g2 f4-f3 16. Kg2-g1 Qg5-h5 17. Nh2xg4 Qh5-h1
  2. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    06 Apr '09 13:52
    Originally posted by Black Star Uchess
    OK people say it's a bad move but... 3 ...f6 in the Ruy Lopez..

    Below's a game from uchess... it's not very sound I'm afraid after move 11, just the most recent case..
    For black there is no intention of 0-0 the plan is to use f6 to attack whites castle... also pinning the knight with Bg4 & if possible Bc5 pinning the f2 pawn.
    With this in ...[text shortened]... 5 13. g2-g3 f5-f4 14. Be3-c1 Qd8-g5 15. Kg1-g2 f4-f3 16. Kg2-g1 Qg5-h5 17. Nh2xg4 Qh5-h1
    Well, to paraphrase somebody or other (Gufeld maybe) when asked what he thought about the Samisch variation of the King's Indian...

    Don't ask the forum - ask the knight on g8.
  3. 06 Apr '09 13:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JonathanB of London
    Well, to paraphrase somebody or other (Gufeld maybe) when asked what he thought about the Samisch variation of the King's Indian...

    Don't ask the forum - ask the knight on g8.
    Good Reply.

    Managed to get PGN working.

  4. 06 Apr '09 13:59 / 1 edit
    true but white's knight on f6 is also pretty lame.

    Edit greenpawn thanks for the PGN
  5. 06 Apr '09 14:10 / 1 edit
    3.f6 reminds me of a bad position for black after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6. After this white wins at least a pawn with Nxe5 and if black takes the knight things get worse.

    In this game, after 3.f6 then 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nxe5 and I think black would be in a similar position, but perhaps with the d pawn out of the way black has better options.

    Edit below:

    Indeed I did. Thanks greenpawn.
  6. 06 Apr '09 14:11 / 1 edit
    I think you mean Black Knight.

    (and the previous poster means Bxc6 dxc6)

    f6 is a move in the exchange Ruy Lopez.

    That is why I often play the delayed exchange. I wait for the
    Black Knight to go to f6 and then chop on c6.

    Not too impressed with White's play in the game - taking the Bishop
    was asking for trouble.
  7. 06 Apr '09 14:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    3.f6 reminds me of a bad position for black after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6. After this white wins at least a pawn with Nxe5 and if black takes the knight things get worse.

    In this game, after 3.f6 then 4.Bxc3 dxc3 5.Nxe5 and I think black would be in a similar position, but perhaps with the d pawn out of the way black has better options.
    Big difference with d-pawn free.

    I've seen this.



    Note 8.Kd1 losses the chess set to 8....Bg4+
  8. 07 Apr '09 00:43
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Good Reply.

    Managed to get PGN working.

    [pgn]
    1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 3. Bf1-b5 f7-f6 4. O-O Bf8-c5 5. c2-c3 a7-a6 6. Bb5-a4 b7-b5 7. Ba4-b3 d7-d6 8. h2-h3 h7-h5 9. d2-d4 Bc5-a7 10. Bc1-e3 Bc8-g4 11. h3xg4 h5xg4 12. Nf3-h2 f6-f5 13. g2-g3 f5-f4 14. Be3-c1 Qd8-g5 15. Kg1-g2 f4-f3 16. Kg2-g1 Qg5-h5 17. Nh2xg4 Qh5-h1[/pgn]
    has anyone considered 14. Qxg4 instead?
    gives back the bishop, but kinda shuts down most of blacks attack down the h-file and starts to counterattack

    unless thers some obvious thing i'm missing
  9. 07 Apr '09 01:45 / 2 edits
    yes looks good. Think 16 NxP would have got him out of trouble to... the bishop sac was probably wrong, I was lucky....

    But if blacks bishop on g5 is still pinning the f2 pawn then the bishop sacrifice on g4 is much more sound, i don't think white can take it. but they often do (eg. in the game above if white played d3, rather then d4)

    also with f6, you can play g5, h5 easily..
  10. 07 Apr '09 02:05
    h3 was poor. d4 should be played first. h3 is not that good of a move because black has already weakend his b7 square and those surrounding it. d4 gives a threat while developing and retaining the initiative, not weakening the kingside for no reason.
  11. 07 Apr '09 03:11
    Here's a better example .. i lost this one on time ... alas but still.
    Here white takes the bishop. but the gives back the knight straight away..and it ends up quite even.
    But i think 13....0-0-0 was wrong and should have played ...g5 straight away ... might have been something there...

    and yes the knight on g8 is totally useless! but i still like the line.
    am away form my main PC, have some better ones there...

  12. 07 Apr '09 04:33
    Originally posted by Black Star Uchess
    Here's a better example .. i lost this one on time ... alas but still.
    Here white takes the bishop. but the gives back the knight straight away..and it ends up quite even.
    But i think 13....0-0-0 was wrong and should have played ...g5 straight away ... might have been something there...

    and yes the knight on g8 is totally useless! but i sti ...[text shortened]... c6-c5 25. Rh5-h7 Nf7-d8 26. Nc3-d5 Nd8-c6 27. Rh7-h8 Kc8-b7 28. Rh8-h7 Nc6-b8 29. Rh7xc7[/pgn]
    23. Qh5 seems like a waste of moves really...
    23. Qh7 seems to work better, especially since white's next move was 24, Rxh5, 25. Rh7

    irregardless, 3.f6 seems interesting. care to play?
  13. 07 Apr '09 16:41
    sure
  14. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    08 Apr '09 13:52
    I can't see why you would need to play f6, wouldn't it be better to just delay that move (you can always play f5 later), and start your kingside atack right away, wouldn't you gain a nice tempo?
  15. 09 Apr '09 12:15
    maybe true ...f6 seems to keep the knight on f3 in place until white has castled... then play Bg4..