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  1. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    08 Oct '07 02:27 / 4 edits
    Game 4117231 ih8sens vs. Dutch Defense. B09.

    8. ... Rb8 - I really dislike this move. I understand it's a very commonly played move (often considered best), but I am certain Nc7 is better. As this game shows, the change in rook position really doesn't change the game at all, it was all played in the middle.

    11. a5 - I only played this move because I couldn't find something I liked better. Every database I looked in shoved this move down my throat and so I played it. I now see some of the benefits of it.

    12. axb6 - I finally get to use en passant in regular play!

    14. ... Nfe8? - My engine says it's fine; beautiful evidence that engines know nothing about positional play. I would have played Bd7 here.

    15. f5! - This move ultimately gives white a significant advantage that would probably have won the game even without the fireworks to follow.

    18. fxg6! - Yah, I think I'm Tal. In this case I ended up a little lucky, it turns out that (after about 3 minutes of analysis) Crafty 19.01 determines for a certainty that this move is actually the correct one.

    19. ... Kxh7?? - Game over, there is no way you can play a game with your king in this much danger, without tempo, and down material and still think of even a draw. It's over. Black resigns soon after.

    I should say one other thing, my opponent is considerably better than his rating suggests, so all due respect to him. And extra thanks to him for actually letting me post this game (I hate posting games without permission; the ones I win that is.)

    Interestingly enough, black only left the book on his 14th move. It makes me doubt the Pirc; ... e5 all the way!

    Quite the game. Short but brilliant, it shows that in playing 'safely', engines often miss some interesting tactics.
  2. 08 Oct '07 05:19
    A recent book on the Pirc (my choice against 1.e4) suggests "8...Bg4 This commits to surrendering the bishops, but neutralizes White's kingside attacking chances, so the struggle shifts to the centre (where white might play e5 and Black might play e6) and the queenside (where black tries to play...b5).

    with this to say about 8...Rb8:

    "The flexible and provocative 8...Rb8 has been popular until very recently, especially among Black players looking to lure weaker opponents into strategically complex territory."
  3. 08 Oct '07 07:23
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    Game 4117231 ih8sens vs. Dutch Defense. B09.

    8. ... Rb8 - I really dislike this move. I understand it's a very commonly played move (often considered best), but I am certain Nc7 is better. As this game shows, the change in rook position really doesn't change the game at all, it was all played in the middle.

    11. a5 - I only played this move bec ...[text shortened]... illiant, it shows that in playing 'safely', engines often miss some interesting tactics.
    nice game, nice tactics. but I don't understand the comments about engines. which engine are you talking about?
  4. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    08 Oct '07 11:36
    Originally posted by diskamyl
    nice game, nice tactics. but I don't understand the comments about engines. which engine are you talking about?
    The ones you use after the game, not during.
  5. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    08 Oct '07 12:34
    Originally posted by diskamyl
    nice game, nice tactics. but I don't understand the comments about engines. which engine are you talking about?
    I personally used Crafty 19 (older version) to help with the analysis. An engine, for those uncertain, is a computer program designed to make the 'best' moves. You'll hear about Fritz, Rybka, Crafty, and others when people talk about engines. It is against the rules to use them on this site. It is okay, however, to use them to analyse games after.
  6. 08 Oct '07 14:01
    Originally posted by ih8sens


    It makes me doubt the Pirc; ... e5 all the way!
    yes...you have a real reason to doubt the Pirc.... Game 3793325 -.-
  7. 08 Oct '07 14:54 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    I personally used Crafty 19 (older version) to help with the analysis. An engine, for those uncertain, is a computer program designed to make the 'best' moves. You'll hear about Fritz, Rybka, Crafty, and others when people talk about engines. It is against the rules to use them on this site. It is okay, however, to use them to analyse games after.
    actually what I meant was that the contemporary engines are both positionally and tactically around GM level in an ordinary computer. I wondered which engine suggested that ...Nfe8, and could not find the tactics you've found.

    I am personally an engine fan , that's why I asked.

    by the way, I'd suggest the latest Toga engine, which is also free and much better than crafty.
  8. 08 Oct '07 18:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    Game 4117231 ih8sens vs. Dutch Defense. B09.

    8. ... Rb8 - I really dislike this move. I understand it's a very commonly played move (often considered best), but I am certain Nc7 is better. As this game shows, the change in rook position really doesn't change the game at all, it was all played in the middle.

    11. a5 - I only played this move bec illiant, it shows that in playing 'safely', engines often miss some interesting tactics.
    why not 8. e5! for white looking for kingside play? looks better than the game move.

    11. a5 held nothing, and was really just a timewaster and space grabber at best. continued kingside action would have been better than this.
  9. 08 Oct '07 18:23
    Originally posted by Patzergrl
    yes...you have a real reason to doubt the Pirc.... Game 3793325 -.-
    how come you didn't go with f4 as in the D.D. game?
    i don't know book Pirc (the Pirc is why I don't play e4 as white, just like i don't play 1. ... e5 for fear of the Ruy Lopez. 1. ... c6 all the way!)
    but pawn to f4 with Nf3 to follow looked really strong against D.D.
  10. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    08 Oct '07 18:29 / 1 edit
    14....Nfe8?! is not good for black - After 14...e6 black is ok. For example 15.e5 Nfe8 16.exd6 Nxd6 17.Ne5 exd5! 18.Nc6 Qh4! with powerful initiative - if 19.Nxb8 then 19... Bd4+ 20.Kh1 (20.Be3 Re8) dxc4 21.Bxc4 Re8 and white is in trouble.

    15...e6? is decisive mistake - after 15....Nf6 white has advantage, but black still can fight.
  11. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    08 Oct '07 18:31 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by rubberjaw30
    why not 8. e5! for white looking for kingside play? looks better than the game move.

    11. a5 held nothing, and was really just a timewaster and space grabber at best. continued kingside action would have been better than this.
    8.e5 Ng4 and black will be able to attack white center. If 9.h3? then 9...cxd4!

    11.a5 is good move - if black will be able to play 11...b5 then they will have more prospects in queen side than in line which was played in the game.
  12. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    08 Oct '07 19:26
    Originally posted by Korch
    8.e5 Ng4 and black will be able to attack white center. If 9.h3? then 9...cxd4!

    11.a5 is good move - if black will be able to play 11...b5 then they will have more prospects in queen side than in line which was played in the game.
    once again, Korch is always right!
  13. 08 Oct '07 19:44
    Originally posted by rubberjaw30
    how come you didn't go with f4 as in the D.D. game?
    i don't know book Pirc (the Pirc is why I don't play e4 as white, just like i don't play 1. ... e5 for fear of the Ruy Lopez. 1. ... c6 all the way!)
    but pawn to f4 with Nf3 to follow looked really strong against D.D.
    the line that d.d. played isn't my fav to play against the Austrian attack...it lets white get a good attack in most lines...
  14. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    08 Oct '07 20:15
    Originally posted by Patzergrl
    yes...you have a real reason to doubt the Pirc.... Game 3793325 -.-
    woah .. a little low... I was 300 points weaker than you when that game was played... I've strengthened considerably since then. Why don't you dig up my first game too if you really want some laughs?
  15. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    08 Oct '07 20:17
    Originally posted by rubberjaw30
    how come you didn't go with f4 as in the D.D. game?
    i don't know book Pirc (the Pirc is why I don't play e4 as white, just like i don't play 1. ... e5 for fear of the Ruy Lopez. 1. ... c6 all the way!)
    but pawn to f4 with Nf3 to follow looked really strong against D.D.
    ... see above post.