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  1. 18 Sep '07 13:11
    My friend challenged me and we played the Giuoco Piano, a line we must have played a hundred times before. This time he played
    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bc4 Bc5
    4. c3 Nf6
    5. d4 exd4
    6. cxd4 Bb4+
    7. Nc3 Nxe4
    8. 0-0 Nxc3
    9. bxc3 Bxc3
    10. Qb3
    This was supposed to be good for white, but he played 10... d5 I had no idea how to respond so i played Qxc3 and lost because i was a pawn down. Anyone know how to respond to that?
  2. 18 Sep '07 13:30 / 1 edit
    Assuming there is no game in progress on this..

    I would start off by taking the bishop on c3, giving up the bishop on c4, this leaves the black pawn on c4 undefendable, but you shouldnt take straight away as you have momentum and should apply pressure with your more active position to get into a better position- not just get your material back as you are left with bishops of opposite colour so if you was to fail in picking up another pawn to square up material you can just draw the endgame, a pawn down, as you have bishops of opposite colour and the extra pawn in most cases cannot make progress.
    A continuation could be..
    1. Qxc3 dxc4
    2. d5 Ne7
    and white is winning i think, the pressure he has and all sorts of threats and opportunities mean he has a better position i think, and if you were to come out a pawn down still it would usually be drawn if you keep both bishops on the board.
    I think the best continuation after this is not to allow an open g-file for counter play with Qxg7 Rg8, but rather play Re1 and if 0-0 Ba3! Re8 (or Nxd5 may be worth looking into instead) Qe3 perhaps. i may well be missing tactics here iv only given this a couple of minutes thought but this seems fine for white, perhaps black can play better and achieve equality?
  3. 18 Sep '07 15:48 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Dejection
    My friend challenged me and we played the Giuoco Piano, a line we must have played a hundred times before. This time he played
    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bc4 Bc5
    4. c3 Nf6
    5. d4 exd4
    6. cxd4 Bb4+
    7. Nc3 Nxe4
    8. 0-0 Nxc3
    9. bxc3 Bxc3
    10. Qb3
    This was supposed to be good for white, but he played 10... d5 I had no idea how to respond so i played Qxc3 and lost because i was a pawn down. Anyone know how to respond to that?
    I used to play this opening as white quite a bit before I switched to the Koltanowski variation.

    Assuming this game is not in progress I would play Bxd5.

    The queen and bishop are exerting pressure on f7 and if black ignores the threat by playing Bxa1 he gets into difficulties.

    11. Bxd5 Bxa1
    12. Bxf7+ Kf8
    13. Bxa3+ Ne7
    14. Re1

    If black just castles then

    11. Bxf7 anyway Rxf7
    12. Ng5 black will probably protect the rook via Qe8 (a move to f8 would be met by Ba3) and at this point you can capture on c3 with a better position.

    I generally played 10.Ba3 which was a fun move in this position.

    Edit: I was talking to a guy who knows the black line quite well and he reckons d5 is an old move that is not considered good for black these days.
  4. 18 Sep '07 16:53
    Originally posted by demonseed
    Edit: I was talking to a guy who knows the black line quite well and he reckons d5 is an old move that is not considered good for black these days.
    All those moves are old.It is an ancient line after all
    If 10...,d5 is considered weak in modern play then what is the improvement?
  5. 18 Sep '07 16:59
    Bxa1 immediately, i presume?
  6. 18 Sep '07 17:17
    Originally posted by mazziewag
    Bxa1 immediately, i presume?
    That appears to lead to disaster for black: 10...,Bxa1? 11.Bxf7+,Kf8 12.Bg5,Ne7 13.Ne5,Bxd4 14.Bg6,d5 15.Qf3+,Bf5 16.Bxf5,Bxe5 17.Be6+,Bf6 18.Bxf6,Ke8 19.Bxg7

    Line taken from fritz' openingsbook.The only source I have on these lines.
  7. 18 Sep '07 18:51
    Demonseed is right.

    BxD5 everytime should lead to a slight but distinct advantage for white with careful play.