Honest Advice for a Change?

Originally posted by clandarkfire
Quit throwing around accusations, look at the games, and use your head.

The number next to his username means nothing until he plays against some better oppostion, and even then CC ratings on an online site are meaningless when compared to OTB ratings. Your yourself say your rating was 1800 a long time ago, and on this site you sit at the dizzying he ...[text shortened]... now that it takes ten times more effort to get from 800 to 1200 than it does from 2000 to 2400.

I never accused anyone of anything.

Like I said, I intentionally avoided looking at his games. Ratings are a reliable predictor of performance. You should learn about them, it may clear up some of your confusion.

If you're going to say I said something at least get it right. I never said "a long time ago"

If you look at my graph you'll see I've played pretty sporadically on here and when I did play I wasnt spending more than a few seconds on my moves. I have never taken corresponce chess seriously and this site even less so. But on some other sites that I've spent more time on I've gotten into the 1800-1900 range and that was a couple of years ago.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
"Opponent Average Rating: 1394"

That might have something to do with it. 🙄

Another dumb question: How do you know it was only 6 months? This game IS played outside RHP, you know.

Just going by what he said.

I've assumed 1400 so I was about right.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
Are you kidding me, or are you drunk?

Its obvious you dont understand what ratings are.

Edit - Another point is that you say at this rate he'll be world champion in months. Any decent chess player will know that it takes ten times more effort to get from 2000 to 2400 than it does from 800 to 1200, although the point difference is the same.

What I said was somewhat facetious. I didnt sit down and actually try to figure out how long it would take to reach that. I thought that was pretty obvious but I guess I was wrong.

Originally posted by savage4731
I'm just curious how you got to 1600 in only 6 months ? That took Josh Waitzkin 3 years to do and they made a movie about him.

it took me about the same time, taking up chess at 30 years old from scratch. basic opening principles & about 12 000 tactical problems as I remember. (which is ultimately why heavy tactical training gets so many recommendations: -it simply works.)

kids have some advantages over adult learners. disciplined studying and study techniques are NOT among them.

Originally posted by clandarkfire


Also there are plenty of records of chess players reaching expert level within two years, maybe less. Until on reaches higher levels, improvement comes in different speeds, depending on study habits, skill, age, etc.

I've never heard of anyone making that fast of an improvement but even so thats still significantly less than what we're talking about. That comes out to about 600 points a year vs. 1800 points a year.

If you're talking about someone like MDLM dont forget he played at 1300 for a long time (taking lessons, reading Silman) BEFORE he made the big jump to 2000.

Originally posted by savage4731
I've never heard of anyone making that fast of an improvement but even so thats still significantly less than what we're talking about. That comes out to about 600 points a year vs. 1800 points a year.

If you're talking about someone like MDLM dont forget he played at 1300 for a long time (taking lessons, reading Silman) BEFORE he made the big jump to 2000.

Plenty have made such improvements, should I list a few?

As I've pointed out, it takes far more effort to improve once you get to higher levels that it does at first.

And as to ratings in an online CC chess site being an accurate indicator of playing strength, that's just plain wrong. The quality of someone's play will show whether or not the ratings are accurate. In most cases the ratings people get will be pretty close, but not until they have played a large sample of games, with at least some against strong opponents.

Originally posted by savage4731
If you look at my graph you'll see I've played pretty sporadically on here and when I did play I wasnt spending more than a few seconds on my moves. I have never taken corresponce chess seriously and this site even less so.

This is exactly why he is at 1600+, he is playing people like you who play CC as if it was blitz and don't even take the site seriously.

Originally posted by wormwood
it took me about the same time, taking up chess at 30 years old from scratch. basic opening principles & about 12 000 tactical problems as I remember. (which is ultimately why heavy tactical training gets so many recommendations: -it simply works.)

kids have some advantages over adult learners. disciplined studying and study techniques are NOT among them.

12,000 problems in 6 months would be about 6x the number of problems MDLM recommends in Rapid Chess Improvement. If you really did that that would really be extraordinary and way beyond what the average person is going to do. I went through a couple of thousand in that span and that seemed like all that was humanly possible.

Even so,his rating didnt stop at 1600 and is almost at 1700 and still climbing. So, he is quite a bit ahead of even you.

I've seen kids reach GM level in 6 or 7 years but I've never seen an adult come close to that.

Originally posted by savage4731
If you really did that that would really be extraordinary and way beyond what the average person is going to do.

I strongly disagree. and I also did a LOT more than that, 12K was just the very beginning:

http://chess.emrald.net/tProfile.php?TacID=516


my pace was about 4-5h of tactics a day for 2 years, interrupted by 2-3 periods of burnout for a couple of months at a time. anybody can do it, but the real question is whether they're WILLING to do it.

had I the drive of the 'teenage gms', I'd have done a LOT more. but I don't have that kind of fire inside, so I did only as little as I did. people just always underestimate the amount of work the good players put into it. and by that I mean I'm not one of those good players, I'm way too lazy for that.

gm ziatdinov said something along the lines of: "I can tell you what to do, but I can't give you the WILL to do it." -and that's really what all chess improvement advice boils down to.

Originally posted by savage4731
Isnt taking your time and not blundering away pieces what everyone tries to do?

I intentionally didnt look at his games. Ratings are a reliable predictor of performance.

C'mon Savage you are on the win up now.

(I'm the wind up merchant around here 😉 )

"Isnt taking your time and not blundering away pieces what everyone tries to do?"

If you had seen what I have seen then you will know that blundering away
pieces through sloppy moves in the 1400 basement is an art form.

In the land of the blind he who sees is King.

This lad is making legal chess moves and collecting pieces.
He is taking his time - his opponents are not. It's as simple as that.

Some of these guys have 40+ games on the go at once.

They start 40 games on Monday and have 320 pieces (40 * 8).
Comes Saturday this is down to 130.

They do not take their time, play too many games...

...but they love it...they keep coming back for more.....I really do envy these guys.

The Numbers

On here grades are a total lottery.

Pick any grade between 1200 and 1900. say 1635...OK 1635.

Within 10 days I can get my grade to exactley 1635.
Not 1636 or 1637 I could actually manufactor my grade to any number
I wanted under 2000 (over that you meet engines they screw things up).

Grades in the real world have a more accurate bearing because they are based
on the stength of the players you have played in a SOLO game.
Under a time control and are published in a 6 month to 12 month period.

Note: based on the stength of the players you have played.

The number does not give you an extra playing abilty (or lack of it)
it is based on other players ability. You are just a number.

If chummy wants to play under 1400's forever. And you cannot do that
on the outside. Then his grade will go up and up and up....to 2100 if he wants to.

He won't be a 2100 OTB player but here you can be any grade you wish.
(within reason and without a box).

The time it has taken me to type this 502 players grades have actually changed.
Some have gone higher, some lower. This time tomorrow they may change again.
The RHP lottery.

Originally posted by greenpawn34

[b]The Numbers

On here grades are a total lottery.[/b]

on the contrary, OTB grades the total lottery! you guys don't even play multiple simultanious games, which everybody knows is The Only Real Way of getting meaningful indication for playing strength. and lets not even go into the silly 3d wood you push around. 😉

Originally posted by greenpawn34
C'mon Savage you are on the win up now.

(I'm the wind up merchant around here 😉 )

"Isnt taking your time and not blundering away pieces what everyone tries to do?"

If you had seen what I have seen then you will know that blundering away
pieces through sloppy moves in the 1400 basement is an art form.

In the land of the blind he who sees is ...[text shortened]... ave gone higher, some lower. This time tomorrow they may change again.
The RHP lottery.

You beat me to it, and saved a bunch of typing! With the number of potential games a player can play on the site, a person's rating can make huge jumps.

Just in the past year I have played almost as many games as I have played rated OTB tournament games in the last 23 years!

My rating can swing 200 points here just because I have a cold, so I am not surprised by anyone's rating swing. People who take ratings here very seriously are also probably waiting for that Nigerian attorney to wire them money from that long-lost relative they never knew. They can be useful for yourself to measure your progress (sometimes), but that's about it.

OTB tournament games are effectively finite in supply, and each one has distinct value- an active player who plays in a 4 round tourmanent once a month only plays 48 games a year.

Here, if you lose a game? Just click on open invites, take your pick, and you are back in the saddle!

Originally posted by savage4731
I'm just curious how you got to 1600 in only 6 months ? That took Josh Waitzkin 3 years to do and they made a movie about him.

LoL I hate Waitzkin