Originally posted by Darth SpongePut it this way. Kasparov thinks so. Many people think so! You'll see the insinuations when you watch the movie. The bottom line: Why did IBM keep everything so secretive?
this is interesting and i've never heard this angle before. so, does the movie make you think that Deep Blue cheated? do other people think this? ok, now i'm defintely renting it.
Companies and science are in a race to create a computer who can defeat all humans, but I do not believe they will ever succeed....I think they are almost there with the computer HYDRA. I beleive that this machine has never lost to a human OTB - can someone confirm this?
Even if this is not true I'm sure that it is only a matter of time before an unbeatable chess engine is possible. Since the number of possible moves is finite (although currently unfathomable) it is feasible that chess 'can be solved'.
Any opinions?
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Originally posted by Dyce WilloughbyNumber of legal positions in chess is estimated to be between 10^43 and 10^50 (^ is to the power of in this case).
I think they are almost there with the computer HYDRA. I beleive that this machine has never lost to a human OTB - can someone confirm this?
Even if this is not true I'm sure that it is only a matter of time before an unbeatable chess engine is possible. Since the number of possible moves is finite (although currently unfathomable) it is feasible that chess 'can be solved'.
Any opinions?
All computers in the world could not store anywhere near this many combinations. Not now or even in the distant future.
EDIT: Out of interest, did some rough calculations. Based on what I worked out to be 260 bits of information per combination. On the lower end of the scale of 10^43 combinations this works out to be just under 3x10^32 Terabytes.
So even if you had a really huge hard drive of 1 Terabyte, it would require approximately 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of them to store this many combinations.
1 Terabyte = 1,024 Gigabytes = 1,048,576 Megabytes
Originally posted by Dyce Willoughbyby "solved" do you mean one particular line discovered that wins every time?
I think they are almost there with the computer HYDRA. I beleive that this machine has never lost to a human OTB - can someone confirm this?
Even if this is not true I'm sure that it is only a matter of time before an unbeatable chess engine is possible. Since the number of possible moves is finite (although currently unfathomable) it is feasible that chess 'can be solved'.
Any opinions?
Originally posted by Dyce WilloughbyThis number is too large. Also, it's not simply a matter of knowing all positions. It's really about how they lie in the tree of chess. In other words, how each position is to be truly evaluated...
Since the number of possible moves is finite (although currently unfathomable) it is feasible that chess 'can be solved'.
Any opinions?
Some problems cannot be solved or exhausted. In chess, proving from move 1 that White wins, loses, or draws will never happen. The tree is so large and the lifetime of the universe so relatively short, that we won't even come close.
As someone put it: 'The cosmos gets mated before chess does. The universe is a Class E patzer when matched up against chess.'
Originally posted by XanthosNZI believe I said that the movie makes those insinuations, Xanthos? I didn't say they were entirely correct. But, it seems to be a dirty thing to involve chess with corporate earnings.
That human intervention angle is played up because it makes a better movie. What it doesn't make however is a factual record.
http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/watch/html/c.shtml
You can get all Deep Blue's game logs from there. They have been there for years. But of course it's much more fun to think that IBM cheated and it's all a giant cons ...[text shortened]...
EDIT: Next time try to know what you are talking about before opening your mouth powershaker.
Originally posted by lauseyYeah, but they never gave them to him in the movie. And, that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about reality. We're talking about the movie? Get it? And, the guy asked about the film. And, yes, it makes direct insinuations that the IBM Deep Blue team cheated Kasparov.
Here is another interesting article which indicates that Kasparov was offered the logs soon after he lost game 2:
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cfs/472_html/Intro/NYT_Intro/ChessMatch/KasparovUnbowed.html
I think that although IBM might have been cheating, there is a strong possibility that they were not. What I do know is that Kasparov didn't play his best. He resigned a drawn position in Game 2, failed to win positions that even I could tell were to his advantage in 3,4, and 5, and succumbed to an opening trap in the last game. In addition, Deep Blue lost to Fritz at the Computer World Championship, and there are many grandmasters with high positive scores against Fritz. IBM didn't necessarily cheat, but they didn't really have to.