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  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Apr '09 01:57 / 1 edit
    I have been playing the KID against c4 or d4 for a long time on RHP. I have some problems against d5 but in general, it's served me pretty well.

    However, I hate having to remove the knight from f6 to play f5 as I most of the time want to do, especially when there's a white pawn on d5. So, I'm trying the Leningrad Dutch on for size, (also because Greenpawn suggested it on one of these threads a few weeks ago).

    Are the any particular traps I should watch out for? Is there anything white can do to take advantage of my more exposed King that I should focus on preventing?

    Disclaimer: I have a couple of Leningrad Dutch games going now in the early stages. I'm not asking for anything specific- just general traps and advice.

    Thanks.
  2. 19 Apr '09 02:27
    Hi

    why not check out:

    http://www.timeforchess.com/gamesexplorer/

    All the Dutch stuff played on here between 1400-1900 players.

    You might even come across a game by an opponent you are playing
    who has played against the Dutch and can 'cook up' something.

    That what it is there for and it's not cheating to look at games
    on a database,

    PS
    I cannot recall telling anyone to drop the KID for the Dutch but as
    I spout a lot of crap on here, perhaps I did - sorry.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Apr '09 03:26
    Thanks.

    You didn't suggest dropping the KID for the Dutch. But I think you said something to the effect of "If you want the pawn on f5 anyway, you can play the Dutch and not have to move the knight to get it there."

    then again, maybe it was someone else (could have been cand1guy)
  4. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    19 Apr '09 04:26
    Maybe get Steffen Pedersen's book on the Leningrad Dutch - it's meant to be excellent
  5. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    19 Apr '09 13:49
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have been playing the KID against c4 or d4 for a long time on RHP. I have some problems against d5 but in general, it's served me pretty well.

    However, I hate having to remove the knight from f6 to play f5 as I most of the time want to do, especially when there's a white pawn on d5. So, I'm trying the Leningrad Dutch on for size, (also because Greenpawn s ...[text shortened]... arly stages. I'm not asking for anything specific- just general traps and advice.

    Thanks.
    the things you need to get prepared against are the anti-dutches involving an early pawn sac (g4 or e4) with Qh5+. those will get you creamed many times until you know them.

    the mainlines are widely transpositional, and you can play them in any order you like pretty much, up to the basic setup of:



    after that you need to know more precisely what you're gonna play.

    oh, and if you can get e5 in, do it. it's almost invariably desirable.
  6. 19 Apr '09 20:06
    Originally posted by sh76
    I have been playing the KID against c4 or d4 for a long time on RHP. I have some problems against d5 but in general, it's served me pretty well.

    However, I hate having to remove the knight from f6 to play f5 as I most of the time want to do, especially when there's a white pawn on d5. So, I'm trying the Leningrad Dutch on for size, (also because Greenpawn s ...[text shortened]... arly stages. I'm not asking for anything specific- just general traps and advice.

    Thanks.
    exactly! the dutch leningrad is golden!
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    20 Apr '09 13:14
    Originally posted by wormwood
    the things you need to get prepared against are the anti-dutches involving an early pawn sac (g4 or e4) with Qh5+. those will get you creamed many times until you know them.

    the mainlines are widely transpositional, and you can play them in any order you like pretty much, up to the basic setup of:

    [fen]rnbq1rk1/ppp1p1bp/3p1np1/5p2/2PP4/2N2NP1/ ...[text shortened]... t you're gonna play.

    oh, and if you can get e5 in, do it. it's almost invariably desirable.
    g4 against the Dutch sounds wild; almost like a super KG. Does black have any choice but to bite? It seems like after gxf5, Black has to choose between a Dianamo setup or pawnless g7 and f7 squares (did anyone say fool's mate?)
  8. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Apr '09 14:54
    Originally posted by sh76
    g4 against the Dutch sounds wild; almost like a super KG. Does black have any choice but to bite? It seems like after gxf5, Black has to choose between a Dianamo setup or pawnless g7 and f7 squares (did anyone say fool's mate?)
    I've always taken it, and never really even thought about declining it. but now that I think about it, 1.d4 f5 2.g4 d5 seems okay, right? preventing e4 which seems like a killer. but white has c4, so I'm not sure... I'd be much happier with d5 if white knight was on c3 preventing c4 push.

    but accepting the pawn is a bit messy, so maybe there's some practical benefits in declining it? I don't know. I generally accept sacs in openings myself though, as I think I should learn theory well enough to play those kind of positions flawlessly even in blitz speed. (I can't, but that's what I aim for through opening study)

    I don't think I've ever faced 2.g4 in slow games though, but 2.e4 is very common (as is d3 followed by e4, so d3 should always scream alert to you). in blitz I've had g4 many times, but only one or two of the opponents knew the theory (or at least the others chose not to follow fxg mainlines...)

    what do you mean by dianamo setup?
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    20 Apr '09 15:47 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by wormwood
    what do you mean by dianamo setup?

    Never mind; I was thinking of something else; ignore that last comment.

    [Ignore the man behind the curtain ]
  10. 21 Apr '09 00:03
    the dutch is growing on me. I like it since previously playing c4 for a 200 game span. The positions are quite similar yet different. I would much rather use a dutch than a classical queens gambit declined. And I too hate using the kings indian, I just don't know how to motivate my crew that well, but the dutch seems much easier on space.
  11. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    21 Apr '09 00:16
    I enjoy playing the Dutch as well. The most common way to meet 2. g4 is like so:

    1. d4 f5 2. g4 fxg4 and now:

    3. e4 d5! 4. e5 Bf5, etc...When Black should be more than okay.

    or

    3. h3 g3! when Black returns the pawn in exchange for wrecking White's queenside quite a bit.