20 Oct 07
1 edit
what makes this defense so good? To an opponent you have never played before, this defense seems to be thwarting, as I have nearly an 80% win record with it or so.
Game 3453482
In my opinion, this defense is beneficial against 1e4 2 d4 openings, as above. It works well for anything except one thing, which is why I posting this.
Game 3698979
When white seems to know what's coming (as will occur with most 1600+ players) he can crush it with, ie the game above or a queen side castle with an attack on black's kingside to follow. Are there any recommendations on how to alter this opening to succeed against such "suffocating" methods?
20 Oct 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RamnedI personally agree with that... there's really not much to say, castling to a fianchetto'd side is often dangerous. Pirc players put themselves at risk by doing this despite seeming very safe. Granted, it is playable and I have lost to it, and certainly will again.
Game 4117231 ... just showing off 😉
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by ih8sensSee, that's where I see the Pirc as Bad - that game. Black did 2 things I do not like. One, he put the knight on f6 and went to castle early. Isn't one of they key aspects of this defense to mess up white pawn structure and to get a hold on e4/d5/f5? At least that's what I've been doing. Additionally, black attempted to push from c2-c4. Stupid. That really hurts black's pawn structure - how can black easily maneveur his e and d pawns??
I personally agree with that... there's really not much to say, castling to a fianchetto'd side is often dangerous. Pirc players put themselves at risk by doing this despite seeming very safe. Granted, it is playable and I have lost to it, and certainly will again.
Game 4117231 ... just showing off 😉
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by RamnedThe game stayed in book until black's 14th move. The move was all but losing... this tells me something... black's position isn't all that safe, considering one innocent looking move can totally destroy their game.
See, that's where I see the Pirc as Bad - that game. Black did 2 things I do not like. One, he put the knight on f6 and went to castle early. Isn't one of they key aspects of this defense to mess up white pawn structure and to get a hold on e4/d5/f5? At least that's what I've been doing. Additionally, black attempted to push from c2-c4. Stupid. That really hurts black's pawn structure - how can black easily maneveur his e and d pawns??
I don't play the pirc 😛. Dutch Defense, e5, even the french at times...
20 Oct 07
1 edit
This is my opinion of what the Pirc fianchetto should do rather than actually attack the queen side. Which is why I think I am successful as black; this position is out of book and usually leads me to facorable position:
Of course, this is not exactly how I would play this if it was to be white's turn...white could play Bb5. It's black to move - pxd4.
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by ih8sensWell bad position for black, otherwise why would you play that. Black needs the a6 knight on d7...and rather than attack (bluntly) with c5, push at e4 using the knight that is on d7 and the fianchetto'd bishop. Briefly looking, the a6 knight is pointless and the fianchetto'd bishop is not supporting much as it could. You probably won that one I bet.
I personally agree with that... there's really not much to say, castling to a fianchetto'd side is often dangerous. Pirc players put themselves at risk by doing this despite seeming very safe. Granted, it is playable and I have lost to it, and certainly will again.
Game 4117231 ... just showing off 😉
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by RamnedIn the second game playing 4. ... Nf6 would have given you a King's Indian which is much more difficult to suffocate. If you don't like the King's Indian then 4. ... Nc6 gives you the Averbakh Variation of the Modern. 4. ... e5 is also playable and can be quite difficult for white.
what makes this defense so good? To an opponent you have never played before, this defense seems to be thwarting, as I have nearly an 80% win record with it or so.
Game 3453482
In my opinion, this defense is beneficial against 1e4 2 d4 openings, as above. It works well for anything except one thing, which is why I posting this.
[gid]3698979[/ ...[text shortened]... recommendations on how to alter this opening to succeed against such "suffocating" methods?
20 Oct 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Kepler4Kf6 would have provided better for what was coming, yes. What's weak about white on move 5 that black could manipulate?
In the second game playing 4. ... Nf6 would have given you a King's Indian which is much more difficult to suffocate. If you don't like the King's Indian then 4. ... Nc6 gives you the Averbakh Variation of the Modern. 4. ... e5 is also playable and can be quite difficult for white.
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by RamnedNot a lot. Although white has built a huge centre black doesn't have anything to undermine it with or strike back with. The position is basically a four pawns attack from the King's Indian without black having a knight on f6. I wouldn't want to be playing 4. ... Nbd7 myself because after f4 it is easy for white to cramp black's position. 4. ... e5 first would have been better I think. Myself, I tend to play 4. ... Nc6 but I have tried 4. ... e5 and it does reduce white's ability to strangle black.
4Kf6 would have provided better for what was coming, yes. What's weak about white on move 5 that black could manipulate?
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by RamnedYou could take a peek at MotownDave's games on this site to see the pirc played well at a higher level. I'm studying the pirc and expect it to be a long time before I reach any real competence.
This is my opinion of what the Pirc fianchetto should do rather than actually attack the queen side. Which is why I think I am successful as black; this position is out of book and usually leads me to facorable position:
[fen]r1bqk1nr/pppn1pbp/3p2p1/4p3/2BPP3/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R[/fen]
Of course, this is not exactly how I would play this if it was to be white's turn...white could play Bb5. It's black to move - pxd4.
I never play the pirc against 1.d4.
The line you played in the second game is a modern - similar to the pirc but delaying devloping the g8 knight.
Pirc 1.e4..d6, 2.d4..Nf6, 3.Nc3..g6, 4.f4...Bg7, 5.Nf3...c5 then after 6. dxc5 black can play...Qa5 this gives a sicilian style of game and if white plays d4-d5 it leads to a sort of Benmoni strtucture.
This line with 4.f4 (the Austrian attack) is reckoned to give black most trouble.
Modern: 1.d4...g6, 2.c4...d6,3.e4...d6, 4.Nc3...Nc6, 5.Be3...e5, 6.d5..Nce7, 7.g4...f5, 8.gxf5...gxf5, Qh5+...Ng6!, 10. exf5...Qh4!, 11.Qf3...N6e7
The modern is flexible and good against almost anything (except 1.b3 & 1.b4). Joe Gallaghers book on it is very good and the book by James Vigus is more encyclopedic.
The Pirc leads to a variety of game styles...some open and tactical some very positional. MotownDave has said that white often wins the short game but black wins the long game.
20 Oct 07
Originally posted by Mahoutgood post; I never knew what defense I played. But the modern is more closely what I am referring to. I strongly agree that f4 gives it most trouble. I would say the reason I do not like the Pirc is because it seems harder to be able to use pawns effectively. and any sicilian related attack isn't to good with me.
You could take a peek at MotownDave's games on this site to see the pirc played well at a higher level. I'm studying the pirc and expect it to be a long time before I reach any real competence.
I never play the pirc against 1.d4.
The line you played in the second game is a modern - similar to the pirc but delaying devloping the g8 knight.
Pirc 1.e4 ...[text shortened]... onal. MotownDave has said that white often wins the short game but black wins the long game.
21 Oct 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RamnedI belive that white could have won the second game!
what makes this defense so good? To an opponent you have never played before, this defense seems to be thwarting, as I have nearly an 80% win record with it or so.
Game 3453482
In my opinion, this defense is beneficial against 1e4 2 d4 openings, as above. It works well for anything except one thing, which is why I posting this.
[gid]3698979[/ recommendations on how to alter this opening to succeed against such "suffocating" methods?
EDIT: never mind black can draw by the seat of his pants with a perpetual check.