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  1. 23 Apr '11 15:11
    What's the best (economical) way to learn the Leningrad? I've been looking at the ABC series by Andrew Martin. I can pick up both for about 50 bucks, USD.

    I figure it is a good fit for my 1.b3 opening as white since the Bird and 1.b3 seem to be fairly similar. I'll often play f4 in my b3 games.

    I'm just wondering if the 50 bucks is worth it or if there is some other way that's just as good on the cheap.
  2. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    23 Apr '11 15:51 / 1 edit
    beim's book 'understanding the leningrad dutch' is very good and thorough.

    I have the andrew martin's fox dvds on leningrad & anti dutches as well, and although the treatment is obviously much narrower (and somewhat ad hoc, ignoring established theory in favour of martin's own impressions), it's very practical and maybe even a better place to begin? I'd guess the ABC dvds are somewhat similar (but haven't seen them).


    that said, I don't know how 1.b3 would fit in (never played it), as leningrad very rarely has b6 anywhere. now c6, that's very thematic. but as reti has common things with reversed dutch, maybe you have something there.
  3. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    23 Apr '11 15:59
    of course it's a very complex, sharp and double edged opening, and it'll take a lot of work and time to not suck at it. but at the same time there's lots of crazy, reckless kingside attacking, which makes it big fun. it's like the KID on steroids.
  4. 23 Apr '11 16:08 / 1 edit
    I'm not looking at it as a b3 aspect, but an f4 aspect. As I said, I do play f4.

    I'm trying to expand!!!!!

    One other thing I suppose I could mention is that I usually play the KID against 1.d4 and I read somewhere that the Leningrad is much like the KID with an early f4 push. I'm interested in seeing how it is played since I usually go for that push only after the center of the board gets locked, protecting the diagonal that can get me checked, that I'm opening up.
  5. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    23 Apr '11 16:32 / 1 edit
    the diagonal will definitely create a lot of 'oops' experiences in the beginning, but over time you'll learn how to deal with it, and it becomes 'just a check'. leningrad is not for the faint of heart.
  6. Standard member Quirke
    Racing Ralph
    23 Apr '11 17:19
    Andrew Martin's DVDs are usually very good, he usually picks a solid but not trendy lines for his audience. I don't have his Leningrad work, but I've got his Caro and Ruy DVDs. I thought they were very good.

    I've got Kindermann's book on order, so we will see how that goes. I've never been impressed with McDonald's books, so I'm avoiding his on the Dutch.

    The nice thing about the Dutch is not everyone plays it. I've found going through the devotee's games as valuable (Naka, Spragett, Malaniuk, etc) as any instruction I've come across. At the end of it all, it comes down to you wanting to play e5 without penalty, and there are a whole host of potential tactics even if you can't.
  7. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    23 Apr '11 17:21
    Eladar - Maybe I am a bit biased against opening books/dvds but I would think getting a sub to RHP and playing a bunch of Lenningrads would be a better use of the money.

    I am sure you can get a lot of stuff on the dutch for free just by spending a little time with google.
  8. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    24 Apr '11 02:11
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I'm not looking at it as a b3 aspect, but an f4 aspect. As I said, I do play f4.

    I'm trying to expand!!!!!

    One other thing I suppose I could mention is that I usually play the KID against 1.d4 and I read somewhere that the Leningrad is much like the KID with an early f4 push. I'm interested in seeing how it is played since I usually go for that push ...[text shortened]... the board gets locked, protecting the diagonal that can get me checked, that I'm opening up.
    In the KID, when white locks the center with d4-d5, black tries to play ...f5, establishing the e5-f5 duo (although he often pushes quickly to f4).

    With the Dutch, black plays ...f5 and tries to play ...e5 to establish the duo.

    With the Leningrad Dutch, black fianchettoes and plays for ...e5, which establishes a position that is visually and thematically closely related to the KID, so that is where the comparison is made.