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  1. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    25 Mar '08 01:16 / 1 edit
    Accordion Silman there is no need for learning it since it never happens.

    I am working that mate in PCT but I still did not master it.

    Again :



    [Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
    [Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2008.3.25"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "ivan2908"]
    [Black "mannie"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]

    1. e2-e4 c7-c5 2. Ng1-f3 g7-g6 3. d2-d4 c5xd4 4. Nf3xd4 Nb8-c6 5. Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 6. f2-f3 Nc6xd4 7. Qd1xd4 Bf8-g7 8. e4-e5 Nf6-g8 9. Bc1-e3 d7-d6 10. f3-f4 Ng8-h6 11. Bf1-d3 O-O 12. h2-h3 Nh6-f5 13. Bd3xf5 Bc8xf5 14. g2-g4 Bf5xc2 15. Ke1-d2 d6xe5 16. f4xe5 Bg7xe5 17. Qd4xd8 Rf8xd8 18. Kd2xc2 Ra8-c8 19. Be3xa7 Be5-f4 20. Ra1-d1 e7-e5 21. Rd1xd8 Rc8xd8 22. Rh1-d1 Rd8xd1 23. Nc3xd1 Kg8-g7 24. Kc2-d3 f7-f5 25. g4xf5 g6xf5 26. b2-b4 e5-e4 27. Kd3-e2 Kg7-g6 28. a2-a4 Kg6-g5 29. Ba7-f2 h7-h5 30. a4-a5 Bf4-d6 31. b4-b5 f5-f4 32. a5-a6 f4-f3 33. Ke2-f1 b7xa6 34. b5xa6 Bd6-b8 35. Nd1-c3 Kg5-f4 36. a6-a7 Bb8xa7 37. Bf2xa7 e4-e3 38. Nc3-d5 Kf4-g3 39. Ba7xe3 Kg3xh3 40. Kf1-f2 Kh3-g4 41. Nd5-f6 Kg4-f5 42. Nf6xh5 Kf5-e4 43. Be3-c1 Ke4-d4 44. Kf2xf3 Kd4-e5 45. Bc1-f4 Ke5-d4 1/2-1/2
  2. 25 Mar '08 01:35
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Accordion Silman there is no need for learning it since it never happens.

    I am working that mate in PCT but I still did not master it.

    Again :



    [Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
    [Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2008.3.25"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "ivan2908"]
    [Black "mannie"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]

    1. e2-e4 c7-c5 2. Ng1-f3 g7-g6 3. d2-d4 c5xd4 4 ...[text shortened]... 5 42. Nf6xh5 Kf5-e4 43. Be3-c1 Ke4-d4 44. Kf2xf3 Kd4-e5 45. Bc1-f4 Ke5-d4 1/2-1/2
    45...Kd4 46.Ng7 Kd3 47.Be3 Kc4 48.Ke4 Kb5 49.Kd5 Kb4 50.Bf2 Ka5 51.Ne6 Kb4 52.Bd4 Kb5 53.Nf4 Kb4 54.Bf2 Ka5 55.Kc5 Ka4 56.Be1 Kb3 57.Ba5 Ka4 58.Bb4 Kb3 59.Ng2 Kc2 60.Kc4 Kd1 61.Nf4 Kc1 62.Nd5 Kd1 63.Kd3 Kc1 64.Ne3 Kb2 65.Kc4 Ka2 66.Kc3 Kb1 67.Ba3 Ka2 68.Nc4 Kb1 69.Kb3 Ka1 70.Bb2+ Kb1 71.Nd2#

    not exactly short winded, but its under 50.
  3. Standard member Chipotle
    Pawn Grubber
    25 Mar '08 03:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    [b]Accordion Silman there is no need for learning it since it never happens.
    Possibly, but it is a great way to learn how a Bishop and Knight work together.
  4. 25 Mar '08 07:41
    Check out Thread 39422. I found both the tutorials and my game against schakuhr very helpful. Maybe schakuhr would do the same exercise with you if you ask nicely.
  5. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    25 Mar '08 09:02
    Originally posted by Nordlys
    Check out Thread 39422. I found both the tutorials and my game against schakuhr very helpful. Maybe schakuhr would do the same exercise with you if you ask nicely.
    Thanks, but I have this exercise going on with pertovitch. I just delayed the game because I thought it would never happen in real.
  6. 25 Mar '08 09:07
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Thanks, but I have this exercise going on with pertovitch. I just delayed the game because I thought it would never happen in real.
    Delayed? Do you mean displayed?
  7. 25 Mar '08 09:16 / 1 edit
    It's not too difficult to learn this against best play...well it can't be because I did learn it "against best play"...I had some fun playing the ending bot on ICC.

    However in a real game if my opponent played a less than "best" move this may change the whole pattern that I've learned and I may not be able to calculate an alternate (albeit shorter) route to checkmate.

    The problem with this mate is that it's over 25 moves long so if you make just one mistake you're likely to be held to a draw under the 50 move rule. It is I think an excellent lesson in piece co-ordination and mating nets. So when I realised Silman's endgame course had left it out because it's so unlikely to occur I - closed the book in disgust - to paraphrase one of Mr Silmans own expressions!

    The principle is to first force the enemy king to the corner with the opposite colour to the bishop you have and then force the king along one of the sides to the corner with the same colour as your bishop where checkmate can be forced.

    So if you were forcing them along from say h8 to a8 you'll find the enemy king does come off the back rank to c7 - and it looks like they can escape - but if you've co-ordinated your pieces properly you will have created a mating net from which they can't escape. I learned it initially from Yasser Seirawans endgame book. But I doubt I could repeat it today without a refresher session.

    My chess fantasy is to be steping in to fill a place on the first team for a crucial match and then with all the other games played out my game is critical - but I've traded down to this ending with only two minutes on the clock. The other players gather round our board...the opposition sniggering beleiveing they have it in the bag. I smile confidently and rattle off the checkmate leaving just 2 seconds on my clock - cheers all round. Winning the lottery is of course more likely.
  8. 25 Mar '08 09:25
    Originally posted by Mahout
    It's not too difficult to learn this against best play...well it can't be because I did learn it "against best play"...I had some fun playing the ending bot on ICC.

    However in a real game if my opponent played a less than "best" move this may change the whole pattern that I've learned and I may not be able to calculate an alternate (albeit shorter) route ...[text shortened]... ur I - closed the book in disgust - to paraphrase one of Mr Silmans own expressions!
    The amount of moves depends on the position...you can make many mistakes and still win it under 50 moves otherwise you wouldn't get the fluctuation of moves that people solve it in.
  9. 25 Mar '08 09:47
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    The amount of moves depends on the position...you can make many mistakes and still win it under 50 moves otherwise you wouldn't get the fluctuation of moves that people solve it in.
    Yeah I supose that's right....when I play it on the ICC bot it says...mate in 26, mate in 25, mate in 24 etc etc and if I make a slip after it says e.g. mate in 18 then it often goes back to mate in 26...I guess I could do this a couple of times and still have spare moves. What the bot doesn't do is play any human errors that allow a faster mate...but a faster mate that I would have to calculate - as oppose to following the learned pattern against best play.
  10. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    25 Mar '08 11:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Accordion Silman there is no need for learning it since it never happens.

    I am working that mate in PCT but I still did not master it.

    Again :



    [Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
    [Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2008.3.25"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "ivan2908"]
    [Black "mannie"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]

    1. e2-e4 c7-c5 2. Ng1-f3 g7-g6 3. d2-d4 c5xd4 4 ...[text shortened]... 5 42. Nf6xh5 Kf5-e4 43. Be3-c1 Ke4-d4 44. Kf2xf3 Kd4-e5 45. Bc1-f4 Ke5-d4 1/2-1/2
    Accordion Silman ??

    I meant : According Silman

    But the result is even, I lost this game because his book told me that I shouldn't bother.

    I will send feedback on his webpage. With this smilie :
  11. 25 Mar '08 11:17
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Accordion Silman ??

    I meant : According Silman

    But the result is even, I lost this game because his book told me that I shouldn't bother.

    I will send feedback on his webpage. With this smilie :
    I thought you drew it? And did you even attempt to find the mate?
  12. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    25 Mar '08 11:19
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Accordion Silman there is no need for learning it since it never happens.

    I am working that mate in PCT but I still did not master it.

    Again :



    [Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
    [Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2008.3.25"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "ivan2908"]
    [Black "mannie"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]

    1. e2-e4 c7-c5 2. Ng1-f3 g7-g6 3. d2-d4 c5xd4 4 ...[text shortened]... 5 42. Nf6xh5 Kf5-e4 43. Be3-c1 Ke4-d4 44. Kf2xf3 Kd4-e5 45. Bc1-f4 Ke5-d4 1/2-1/2
    Silman's a douche. I can't stand to read what he writes.
  13. 25 Mar '08 11:23
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Silman's a douche. I can't stand to read what he writes.
    Maybe thats cuz you can't stand at all?
  14. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    25 Mar '08 11:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Maybe thats cuz you can't stand at all?
    Now I know you are at least tipsy.
  15. 25 Mar '08 11:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Now I know you are at least tipsy.
    You didn't get it? You said, "I can't stand to read what he writes"


    EDIT: and if you can't stand at all then it would logically follow that you wouldn't be able to stand to read what Silman writes.