I was playing in an OTB tourney the other weekend and played the following game (I was black)
My question is this: Should i have grabbed the exchange at move 13, or simply castled and enjoyed my extra pawn and bishop pair?
I got into no end of bother with my kings rook and i was eventually lucky to draw.
Originally posted by loaf86The game was drawn at move 17?
I was playing in an OTB tourney the other weekend and played the following game (I was black)
[pgn]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.c3 c5 6.Ngf3 Nc6 7.b3 Qc7 8.Bb5 cxd4 9.cxd4 Nxd4 10.Bxd7+ Bxd7 11.0-0 Nxf3+ 12.Nxf3 Bb4 13.Bb2 Bb5 14.Qd4 Bxf1 15.Qxb4 Ba6 16.Rc1 Qd7 17.Ba3
[/pgn]
My question is this: Should i have grabbed the exchange at move 13, or ...[text shortened]... bishop pair?
I got into no end of bother with my kings rook and i was eventually lucky to draw.
I guess you couldn't have been faulted for playing it safe and castling, but from this patzer's point of view, I'd have grabbed the exchange, then played 16...Qb6, offering the exchange of queens at the expense of doubled pawns. If White exchanges queens and then plays Ba2 (preventing kingside castling, I might have just played the king to d7, giving up on the idea of castling, but the benefit is that both rooks can easily be activated. It would have been an interesting game.
Edit - As the game was played, I can understand if you offered a draw at move 17. I'm not sure I'd have wanted to play Black in that position.
Originally posted by Mad RookI need to edit my edit, but I missed the edit deadline.
Edit - As the game was played, I can understand if you offered a draw at move 17. I'm not sure I'd have wanted to play Black in that position.
As the game was played, I can understand if you offered/agreed to a draw at move 17. I'm not sure I'd have wanted to play the black side in that position, even up the material. I guess 17...Bb5 (with the idea of 18...Bc6, blocking the open file) is one idea. But White can play either 18.Qd6 or 18.Nd4, causing complications. Maybe better is 17...b6, with the idea of 18...Rc8, trading off one pair of rooks.
Originally posted by loaf86As long as you put some thought into it, why not just grab all the material that you can? 🙂
I was playing in an OTB tourney the other weekend and played the following game (I was black)
[pgn]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.c3 c5 6.Ngf3 Nc6 7.b3 Qc7 8.Bb5 cxd4 9.cxd4 Nxd4 10.Bxd7+ Bxd7 11.0-0 Nxf3+ 12.Nxf3 Bb4 13.Bb2 Bb5 14.Qd4 Bxf1 15.Qxb4 Ba6 16.Rc1 Qd7 17.Ba3
[/pgn]
My question is this: Should i have grabbed the exchange at move 13, or ...[text shortened]... bishop pair?
I got into no end of bother with my kings rook and i was eventually lucky to draw.
Your follow-up wasn't that handy though, perhaps 14. ... Bc5 was better (play might continue 15. Qg4 Bxf1 16. Qxg7 (?) O-O-O!). Now instead White gained quite nice play on the dark squares and perhaps even enjoyed an advantage in the final position - how is the King ever going to get away from e8 and with that, how to activate the Queen/Rooks/Bishop. I can understand Black wanting a draw there.
Originally posted by heinzkatI like your 14...Bc5 idea better. I think my 16...Qb6 idea is playable, but dicey. Yours is definitely safer. That's why I'm the patzer. *sigh*
As long as you put some thought into it, why not just grab all the material that you can? 🙂
Your follow-up wasn't that handy though, perhaps 14. ... Bc5 was better (play might continue 15. Qg4 Bxf1 16. Qxg7 (?) O-O-O!). Now instead White gained quite nice play on the dark squares and perhaps even enjoyed an advantage in the final position - how is the Kin ...[text shortened]... and with that, how to activate the Queen/Rooks/Bishop. I can understand Black wanting a draw there.
fine, fine. the rest of the game went
i had intended to push the a and b pawns to dislodge the queen, but opponent shifted it quickly anyway.
i offered a draw, assuming it was a perpetual and my opponent, blinded by the check, took it. We both missed that Kg3 was completely winning for white. see what i mean by patzerly woodpushing?😀
i am in no way proud of this
Originally posted by EladarTo trap the Rook on f1, which is quite cunning. I also find the "perpetual check" at the end quite cunning and humorous. My compliments for sharing the whole game here. :-)
Why did you play Bb4? The bishop isn't supported which made it a target, giving up the diagonal for castling. I think Be7 is a better move or perhaps Bc5.
Good game, good post and a good question.
I prefer White's OTB chances after 17 Ba3.
White had the right idea but went slightly astray.
He should have played 18.Qg4 instead of 18.Qh5.
Hitting the g-pawn creates holes and one idea after g6 is h3 - Nh2 - Ng4-f6.
The tactical facts are that the Knight can jump all over the place.
The Queen must not leave e7 unprotected and the dark squares
belong to White.
It's a very difficult position for Black to hold - you should not give
yourself such OTB problems
You are correct you should not have touched the Rook.
Simply castling would have given you a good game.
Here is a sample line - All I'm going to do here is play a s few simple
moves and win back the exchange, practically at will to show just how
powerless Black is.
If we are to assume that our opponent knows the best response to what we do, then I think that means Bb4 isn't a good move. It seems to me that either Be7 or Bc5 would be the best move before castling the King, although I think I've seen some people fianchetto the king side in a similar position.
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Originally posted by EladarIndeed, I think this is the only way for black to get a decent game. If I had to play black, I think I'd try 17 ... f6 and try to get my king to f7. This looks like it might be possible, even though black's king gets pretty drafty.
If we are to assume that our opponent knows the best response to what we do, then I think that means Bb4 isn't a good move. It seems to me that either Be7 or Bc5 would be the best move before castling the King, although I think I've seen some people fianchetto the king side in a similar position.
I think Greenpawn is probably right that its safer and simpler just to 0-0 and avoid everything while being a pawn up.
I have a question. In both Greenpawn's example and the original game, white chose to castle instead of taking the hanging knight on d4.
What's the poison I'm not seeing? I play the French and I'd love to know how to punish my opponent if I try offering my knight like that.