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  1. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '12 19:09
    USCF rules traditionally have required you to call the opponent's flag to claim a win on time. This was suitable for the age of the analog clock. In a mad time scramble, one of the players would glance up and notice that both flags were down, and there was not a reliable way to determine whose flag had fallen first. Witnesses were prone to bias, and it was not always possible for the TD to watch the game.

    But now, as digital clocks take over, it's time for a change. For sudden death time controls, the clock should alert the players immediately when a flag falls, and freeze the clocks, so it is obvious which player has flagged and which one still has time. Most digital clocks have the capability already. An impartial electronic arbitrator is available; why not use it?
  2. 25 Sep '12 20:33
    I'm going no.

    It's up to the player to watch and handle their clock.
    It brings into the game an outside electical element.
    The noise these things make could and would put off the other players around them.

    No more whose flag fell first disputes.....what's to dispute.
    If it was blitz or an allegro finish the game is drawn.

    If it happens at the end of the first session of play the game goes on.
  3. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '12 22:44
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I'm going no.

    It's up to the player to watch and handle their clock.
    It brings into the game an outside electical element.
    The noise these things make could and would put off the other players around them.

    No more whose flag fell first disputes.....what's to dispute.
    If it was blitz or an allegro finish the game is drawn.

    If it happens at the end of the first session of play the game goes on.
    The electrical element has been there since at least the USCF Master Quartz clock, which was battery-powered.

    The clock doesn't have to make any noise to alert the players. The Chronos clock freezes the times and flashes the display on the side with 0. That will do the job without disturbing other players.

    OK, so forget about disputes. The player who runs out of time first should lose [or draw if the opponent lacks mating material]. That's the idea behind having a clock in the first place.

    I would not miss double-flag draws one bit if they were gone. That seems like an invalid result to me. It's similar to a game decided by an illegal move that is noticed only after the game is finished. "Mate!" *signs scoresheet* "Wait, how exactly did you get two dark-square Bishops?!"

    Auto-flag works best with a single-stage SD control. 40/2, SD/1 introduces the problem of the move counter on the clock getting out of sync if the players aren't punching the clock correctly. In that case, I prefer to have auto-flag on the final stage of the game only.
  4. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Sep '12 23:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    The electrical element has been there since at least the USCF Master Quartz clock, which was battery-powered.

    The clock doesn't have to make any noise to alert the players. The Chronos clock freezes the times and flashes the display on the side with 0. That will do the job without disturbing other players.

    OK, so forget about disputes. The player w correctly. In that case, I prefer to have auto-flag on the final stage of the game only.
    Sounds good to me as long as everyone has the same type clocks. I really like those auto-move recording chessboards too.
  5. 25 Sep '12 23:14
    No noise and they stop flashing a light.

    I trust these things more mechanical clocks at blitz.
    (The player who sets the time always gives himself more time.)

    They are also more sturdy. Mine use to take a real battering but still works.
    I have two broken mechanical clocks.

    Means the player can fully concentrate on the game without having
    to keep flicking a glance at the clock.

    OK. I'm in.
  6. 26 Sep '12 16:45
    Spaceships!

    Playing chess with a mechanical clock in a spaceship won't work because
    gravity won't allow the flag to fall.

    It has to be digital clocks in a spaceship.
    (you never thought of that one SG. Add it to the list.)
  7. 26 Sep '12 19:51
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Spaceships!

    Playing chess with a mechanical clock in a spaceship won't work because
    gravity won't allow the flag to fall.

    It has to be digital clocks in a spaceship.
    (you never thought of that one SG. Add it to the list.)
    It appears that I am not the only one a few fries short of a happy meal.
  8. 26 Sep '12 20:02
    When I first started, I had an analog clock, but it ran on batteries. Then, I upgraded to digital. At one point, I became obssessed with owning a windup clock. My friend asked me why I would even want one, and I gave him the best answer I could think of: "If they ever drop the nukes, or we just end up living in an apocalyptice world with no available batteries, I'd like to get a few blitz games in. " We had a laugh, because as crazy at is seems, I'd probably still have chess on the mind after all that.
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    26 Sep '12 21:53
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    When I first started, I had an analog clock, but it ran on batteries. Then, I upgraded to digital. At one point, I became obssessed with owning a windup clock. My friend asked me why I would even want one, and I gave him the best answer I could think of: "If they ever drop the nukes, or we just end up living in an apocalyptice world with no ...[text shortened]... ugh, because as crazy at is seems, I'd probably still have chess on the mind after all that.
    I played with my old windup clock until I quit chess in 1982. My old windup clock still works, but things have changed now and I had to buy a digital clock so I could set 5 sec delays for those chess matches that are played with the delays.
  10. 26 Sep '12 22:13
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I played with my old windup clock until I quit chess in 1982. My old windup clock still works, but things have changed now and I had to buy a digital clock so I could set 5 sec delays for those chess matches that are played with the delays.
    1982 was a great year!
  11. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    27 Sep '12 02:40
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Spaceships!

    Playing chess with a mechanical clock in a spaceship won't work because
    gravity won't allow the flag to fall.

    It has to be digital clocks in a spaceship.
    (you never thought of that one SG. Add it to the list.)
    ...and we'll have to factor in the relative speed of the ship and time dilation...
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    27 Sep '12 04:49
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    1982 was a great year!
    Yeah, that was the year I won $4500 at the World Open in Philadelphia.
  13. Subscriber Ponderable On Vacation
    chemist
    28 Sep '12 10:24
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yeah, that was the year I won $4500 at the World Open in Philadelphia.
    wow. In which section did you play?
  14. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    28 Sep '12 11:50
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    wow. In which section did you play?
    I played in the 1600 and under, which was the lowest section at that time I believe.
  15. 28 Sep '12 14:50
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I'm going no.

    It's up to the player to watch and handle their clock.
    I fully agree.

    If lazy USCF members can't be arsed to watch their clocks, be honest and remove the d#^#ned things already.

    Richard