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  1. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    03 Mar '12 16:25
    It's been awhile since I have posted a thread...



    Morphy - Rousseau NO 1849

    Morphy plays 10.Nce4. Can Black take and work out how play should go without moving the pieces?

    Sidenote- Morphy was something like 12 when he played this game.
  2. 03 Mar '12 20:23
    I don't think so, moving Qf7+, Kd7, dxe4 seems to leave white with a lot to build on...
  3. 04 Mar '12 11:06 / 2 edits
    This reminds me of a puzzle I was looking at the other day on CTS without site of the board/pieces and I couldn't work out why CTS hadn't given all the variations. Kept bugging me.

    These old Masters had remarkable tactical vision. This is the actual game, sorry if I spoilt it for anyone else.

  4. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    04 Mar '12 14:10
    These days your average club player would decline the Knight offer. The context of the game was that Morphy was 12 and had never read a chessbook (sound familiar Capablanca fans) prior to this game.
  5. 04 Mar '12 15:02 / 4 edits
    Hi Nimzo.

    "These days your average club player would decline the Knight offer"

    Agreed. But would your average club player offer the Knight?


    Morphy played 10.Nce4.

    There is no forced checkmate just a postion full of tactical play. (if it's taken.)
    Here White to play.


    Morphy played 12.Qe6+ (what happens after 12...Ke8.) I think most club
    players would see before the sac 12.dxe4 here wins back the piece so some
    of the tactics first crowd (....er....me. )would have considered saccing the Knight.

    But I'm thinking a club player and indeed Morphy a few years later would
    have played 10.Re1.



    Developing a piece with a threat rather than bank on Black playing a bad move
    (...er...that sounds like me again.)

    Hi Enrico:

    "These old Masters had remarkable tactical vision.

    Morphy was 12. 😉 But I know what you mean.
  6. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    04 Mar '12 16:17 / 1 edit
    A club player might play anything on move 10 :? but you are absolutely right that 10. Nce4 takes a certain confidence whereas Re1 is a safe, effective way to play the position.


    edit- a bit bummed that GP didn't have a 1400 rhp game that matched the position...
  7. 05 Mar '12 23:06 / 8 edits
    Originally posted by nimzo5
    It's been awhile since I have posted a thread...

    [fen]r1bqkb1r/pp2n1pp/2p5/3nppN1/2B5/2NP1Q2/PPP2PPP/R1B2RK1 w kq - 0 10[/fen]

    Morphy - Rousseau NO 1849

    Morphy plays 10.Nce4. Can Black take and work out how play should go without moving the pieces?

    Sidenote- Morphy was something like 12 when he played this game.
  8. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    05 Mar '12 23:21
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    [pgn][FEN "r1bqkb1r/pp2n1pp/2p5/3nppN1/2B5/2NP1Q2/PPP2PPP/R1B2RK1 w kq - 0 10"]1.Nce4 fxe4 2.Qf7+ Kd7 3.Qe6+ Kc7 4.Qxe5+ Kd7 5.Qe6+ Kc7 6.dxe4[/pgn]
    BxQ gg
  9. 05 Mar '12 23:26
    Originally posted by Exuma
    BxQ gg
    Dangit. I had it originally a move earlier but changed it in an edit.

    This is what I get.

    I really wasn't sure what was purpose of the sac on e4 because the king can just go back to e8 after Qe6+ and other moves just gain the piece back, although the white position is superior it was already superior before the sac, so I was just seeing what happens if black goes down this road.
  10. 06 Mar '12 00:16
    What if Black plays 10...h6

    Doesn't White now have his two knights hanging ?
  11. 06 Mar '12 00:47 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by w0lver1ne
    What if Black plays 10...h6

    Doesn't White now have his two knights hanging ?
    That creates a weakness on g6 which can be exploited by 11.Qh5+ (now knight can't interpose) if 11...g6 then Nf6 is mate and if ...Kd7 then Nc5+ leads to a win of blacks queen.





  12. 06 Mar '12 10:52
    After 10...h6 11 Qh5+ g6 there is no mate with Nf6 because the black knight on d5 can take.

    12 Nf6+ Nxf6
  13. 06 Mar '12 21:23 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by w0lver1ne
    After 10...h6 11 Qh5+ g6 there is no mate with Nf6 because the black knight on d5 can take.

    12 Nf6+ Nxf6
    First take the knight. Forgot that part. 12.Bxd5 if he takes your queen then its mate and if he takes your bishop with his knight then there is no longer cover for the g pawn.