Question about draw offer

twohybrid

Only Chess

19 Nov 13

twohybrid

Joined: 18 Nov 13
Moves: 1377

19 Nov 13

If a draw offer is made to an opponent who cannot win, must the opponent accept?

SwissGambit

Caninus Interruptus

2014.05.01

Joined: 11 Apr 07
Moves: 92274

19 Nov 13

Originally posted by twohybrid
If a draw offer is made to an opponent who cannot win, must the opponent accept?

Nope.

byedidia

Mister Why

San Carlos, CA

Joined: 21 Feb 12
Moves: 6039

19 Nov 13

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It depends on the what meaning of the word 'must' is." According to the rules of the game, no. According to the rules of logic, he can do no better than a draw, so he must accept. But then you are getting into epistemology rather than chess.

twohybrid

Joined: 18 Nov 13
Moves: 1377

19 Nov 13

So, I must wait 150 - 300 days to get a draw or until one of us has a heart attack!

Fat Lady

Joined: 21 Feb 06
Moves: 6830

19 Nov 13

Which game are talking about? Can you post a link?

twohybrid

Joined: 18 Nov 13
Moves: 1377

19 Nov 13

It's not on this site. It's R and K v. Knight and K

Ponderable

chemist

Linkenheim

Joined: 22 Apr 05
Moves: 669839

19 Nov 13

3 edits

Originally posted by twohybrid
It's not on this site. It's R and K v. Knight and K

So a win is (theoretically with bad Play) possible for either of you. The best choice is to force an Exchange if possible if not to repeat a Position three times. In both cases the draw can be enforced via the arbiter.

for a mate by K+N against K+R. Last moves: R h2?? Ng3#

dikankan

Joined: 04 Sep 07
Moves: 14832

19 Nov 13

2 edits

Unless you can walk into a repetition, you have to wait to claim a draw under the 50-move rule and your opponent has to accept that. It is a long time to wait (especially in an online game!) but it is what the rules allow to cope with excessive stubbornness.
Over the Board there tend to be regulations to allow arbiters/team captains to declare draws in trivially drawn positions, never heard of a website having one.

twohybrid

Joined: 18 Nov 13
Moves: 1377

19 Nov 13

That is amazing!!! OK, I will have to always put my R en-prise!

~~robbie carrobie~~

Joined: 26 Aug 07
Moves: 38239

19 Nov 13

1 edit

oops wrong place

dikankan

Joined: 04 Sep 07
Moves: 14832

19 Nov 13

Apologies! I assumed you had the knight against the rook. With KR vs KN can you not get an automatic draw but swapping to lone kings?
If the website doesn't do that, you could offer them a draw, if they decline you could ask what their winning plan is, then exchange off, and then ask to see the next stage of the plan.

twohybrid

Joined: 18 Nov 13
Moves: 1377

19 Nov 13

Originally posted by dikankan
Apologies! I assumed you had the knight against the rook. With KR vs KN can you not get an automatic draw but swapping to lone kings?
If the website doesn't do that, you could offer them a draw, if they decline you could ask what their winning plan is, then exchange off, and then ask to see the next stage of the plan.

What is fascinating is that I was wrong in the first place. I assumed that because K and Kt can not checkmate a lone K, then K and Kt against R and K can't win. But, amazingly, as pointed out in this thread, K and Kt CAN win against K and R!!! So, maybe my opponent is hoping I will make a terrible blunder.

moonbus

Über-Nerd (emeritus)

Joined: 31 May 12
Moves: 8703

19 Nov 13

Originally posted by twohybrid
It's R and K v. Knight and K

The side with the R can win, but it is not forced from all positions. It all depends on where the pieces are. See Reuben Fine, Basic Chess Endings, R vs N (no pawns), diagrams 496 - 500 (Dover paperback ed.).

SwissGambit

Caninus Interruptus

2014.05.01

Joined: 11 Apr 07
Moves: 92274

19 Nov 13

Originally posted by twohybrid
That is amazing!!! OK, I will have to always put my R en-prise!

See, you can discuss games in progress, as long as you do it on another site! 😞

greenpawn34

Joined: 06 May 08
Moves: 43363

19 Nov 13

1 edit

I'm not comfortable with this either, but there is nothing in TOS that
says you cannot discuss games from another site. 🙂

Perhaps Russ should start up a new forum.
Games from other sites that can be openly discussed.

Maybe we should pile across to Chess.Com and discuss our own Anand - Carlsen game.

(If you have the Rook just pin the Knight to the King and chop it.)