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  1. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    16 Feb '06 18:20 / 1 edit
    Knights and bishops are equal despite immense difference. Either plus a pawn against the other constitutes a clear advantage, but is it sufficient to win?

    The following position occurred last week in a game (now finished) at another site. It is black's move.



    Can black win this with perfect play on both sides? How?

    Note: I won, and I believe I found the correct plan. However, at a few critical moments, my opponent failed to offer the most stubborn defense. I'll post the game's conclusion after awhile, if there is interest.
  2. Standard member Wibble Wobble
    Action barbie
    16 Feb '06 18:42
    Trianglulate with the king to loose a tempo?
  3. 16 Feb '06 19:38
    Originally posted by Wibble Wobble
    Trianglulate with the king to loose a tempo?
    I tried that against an engine - Couldn't get it to work. I also sac'ed my bishop for a pawn in order to get a passed d-pawn but the best I was able to do was get a draw.

    Do tell, Wulebgr!
  4. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    16 Feb '06 19:39
    Originally posted by Positional Player
    Do tell, Wulebgr!
    In due time.
  5. 16 Feb '06 21:21
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Knights and bishops are equal despite immense difference. Either plus a pawn against the other constitutes a clear advantage, but is it sufficient to win?

    The following position occurred last week in a game (now finished) at another site. It is black's move.

    [fen]8/8/4p2p/pk1pP1pP/Nb1P2P1/1K6/8/8 w - - 0 49[/fen]

    Can black win this with perfect play ...[text shortened]... he most stubborn defense. I'll post the game's conclusion after awhile, if there is interest.
    I'll check it out later, tommorrow maybe but black first move should be to retreat the bishop, say to f8 or e7. and Nc5 doesn't work for white because black chops the knights head off and the pawns cannot be stopped hence a black win.
  6. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Feb '06 14:30
    Originally posted by Wibble Wobble
    Trianglulate with the king to loose a tempo?
    I'm not certain how you can triangulate with the king when a knight covers a key square, but you can lose a tempo (or gain as the case may be) with the bishop, as I did in the game. From the diagram position, I saw that I might create some threats in my bishop could penetrate and threaten his backwards d-pawn, but if I tried 1...Bd2, 2.Nc5 gives white the advantage.

    Instread I played 1...Be7, and after 2.Nb2 (white has very few moves) 2...Bf8 3.Na4 Bb4, we reach the position below.



    This position is the same as in my original post in this thread, except that it is now white's move. White must play 4.Nb2, and now the black bishop may safely go to d2 because Nc5 is no longer a threat.
  7. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    18 Feb '06 03:18
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    I'm not certain how you can triangulate with the king when a knight covers a key square, but you can lose a tempo (or gain as the case may be) with the bishop, as I did in the game. From the diagram position, I saw that I might create some threats in my bishop could penetrate and threaten his backwards d-pawn, but if I tried 1...Bd2, 2.Nc5 gives white the ad ...[text shortened]... st play 4.Nb2, and now the black bishop may safely go to d2 because Nc5 is no longer a threat.
    What do you do if 1...Be7 2.Nc3+ ?
  8. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    18 Feb '06 13:36
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    What do you do if 1...Be7 2.Nc3+ ?
    Reconsider the draw offer that I had ignored a few moves back. I don't see that black can make progress here.