The Najdorf's Aura of Invincibility - CRUSHED

I sometimes wonder, is the Najdorf objectively better than the HAD? What do you guys think? Or at the very least, is 2. ...d6 better than 2 ...g6

I think due to the fact that white can pursue a very nagging edge with the Maroczy Bind without any real winning chances for black, The Najdorf is certainly better than the HAD if you are trying to win. Against a better player, in the Najdorf, you stand chances to get a messy position and hope for a blunder. If a better player plays the Maroczy bind, he is gonna make you miserable, because some of those endgames do give white winning chances.

Originally posted by !~TONY~!
I think due to the fact that white can pursue a very nagging edge with the Maroczy Bind without any real winning chances for black, The Najdorf is certainly better than the HAD if you are trying to win. Against a better player, in the Najdorf, you stand chances to get a messy position and hope for a blunder. If a better player plays the Maroczy bind, he is gonna make you miserable, because some of those endgames do give white winning chances.

Yeah, I completely agree. Even while seriously considering the French and Najdorf, I have spent countless hours to find a good response to the bind. I've looked at the Nc6 Nf6 system, the Bg7 Qb6 lines, and the trendy b6 lines. (even some odd ideas with e6 and d6) Still, all of them leave White with a small but persistent edge which all but guarantees a draw with good play and leaves open the possibility of simplifying into a better endgame. The worst part is that it doesn't take a lot of theory to do this, nor a great player.

On the other hand, the Najdorf doesn't seem to suffer from any serious problems if it is analyzed deeply and it offers good winning chances. However, there are some forced draw lines in the Bg5 variation (and perhaps others). Still, they can be avoided with a slightly inferior position. In fact, the Najdorf's great variety impresses me a lot. For example, Be3 can be faced with e6 or e5. Nb3 in the e5 line can be faced with Be6 or Be7. 8. f3 in the Be6 line can be faced with Be7 or Nbd7 (very different systems). But it's not variety itself that impresses me, it's that all of these moves are sound and score well. Even against very sharp and aggressive lines like 5. Bg5 e6 7. f4, Black can opt for Nbd7, Be7, Qb6, Nc6, b5 and Qc7, all giving him sound positions which score decently (>46😵 in practice. (even b5 hasn't been refuted, despite seemingly breaking opening principles) I could not find so many different sound black responses in the HAD or any other Black opening. The variety in the Najdorf is a good indication of its soundness and viability for players with widely differing needs and styles.

Originally posted by exigentsky
I sometimes wonder, is the Najdorf objectively better than the HAD? What do you guys think? Or at the very least, is 2. ...d6 better than 2 ...g6

I think 2...d6 is more positionally sound... 2...g6 gives away your plan far too early.

eggstinking you are a troll for starting such a thread. Wash away those stinking eggs and post something sensible.

Originally posted by z00t
[b]eggstinking you are a troll for starting such a thread. Wash away those stinking eggs and post something sensible.[/b]

1) His nick is exigentsky
2) Your post is trolling (like most part of your posts).

Originally posted by Korch
1) His nick is [b]exigentsky
2) Your post is trolling (like most part of your posts).[/b]

Scotch don't interfere unless this is a discussion on whisky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_whisky

Originally posted by z00t
Scotch don't interfere unless this is a discussion on whisky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_whisky

Whisky could be believable explanation of your "logic" and rudeness.

Originally posted by Korch
Whisky could be believable explanation of your "logic" and rudeness.

Your humour is a bit "dry". You still don't get it :-

- Scotch and Korch?

Originally posted by z00t
Your humour is a bit "dry". You still don't get it :-

- Scotch and Korch?

Do you really think that your childish wits are funny? If you are not a teen then you should be drunk.

Finally gave the post it's own thread: http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=69030 It was too long anyway.

Here's my first Najdorf at non-blitz time controls:

[Event "ICC 15 0 u"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.05.15"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Colossus"]
[Black "ExpertNewbie"]
[Result "*"]
[WhiteElo "2603"]
[BlackElo "2039"]
[ECO "B96"]

1. Nf3 c5 2. e4 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Nbd7 8. Bc4
Qb6 9. Bb3 Be7 10. Qd2 Nc5 11. Ba4+ Nxa4 12. Nxa4 Qc7 13. Nc3 b5 14. a3 Bb7 15.
Qe3 O-O 16. Rd1 Rac8 17. O-O h6 18. Bxf6 Bxf6 19. Rf3 Rfd8 20. f5 e5 21. Nb3
Bg5 22. Qe2 Qb6+ 23. Kh1 Bc6 24. Rg3 a5 25. Nd5 Bxd5 26. Rxd5 Rc4 27. c3 a4 28.
Nd2 Bxd2 29. Rxd2 Kh7 30. f6 g6 31. Rh3 { Black forfeits on time } (I was going for d5! when my time ran out)

Here's the position after d5:



I couldn't find many people willing to play a Najdorf (rather than some sideline) and so I played a quick (15 min) game vs some 2600+ computer engine. Of course, I ran out of theory before move 10, but I didn't feel like my position was too bad. I know I underestimated b4 a number of times, but I have too little knowledge of this variation to say more. I would really appreciate some suggestions for improvements of Black's play. It would help me a lot.

Please give me some advice here. 🙂

Maybe the Najdorf is simply too complex for mere mortals. Here's a pretty much forced variation in the Bg5 Najdorf when Black doesn't go for the Poisoned Pawn which is just as crazy and White has some interesting ideas lately (based on e5):

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Nbd7 8. Qf3
Qc7 9. O-O-O b5 10. Bxf6 Nxf6 11. e5 Bb7 12. Qe3 dxe5 13. Ncxb5 Qb6 14. fxe5
Nd5 15. Qg3 axb5 16. Bxb5+ Kd8 17. c4 Bc5 18. Nxe6+ Qxe6 19. cxd5 Qg6 20. Qxg6
hxg6 Black probably has equality in a very unclear position but had to make a bunch of only moves just to stay alive.

No diagrams can do this justice, so just check the moves yourself. 🙂

Originally posted by exigentsky
Maybe the Najdorf is simply too complex for mere mortals. Here's a pretty much forced variation in the Bg5 Najdorf when Black doesn't go for the Poisoned Pawn which is just as crazy and White has some interesting ideas lately (based on e5):

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Nbd7 8. Qf3
Qc7 9. O-O-O b5 10. Bxf6 Nxf6 11 ...[text shortened]... s just to stay alive.

No diagrams can do this justice, so just check the moves yourself. 🙂

you could try playing The O'Kelly variation to the sicilian with 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 not many people know that variation and I have won quite a few games when white tries to overextend.