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  1. 20 Nov '06 20:09
    fron susan polgars blog, they are long and tedious but here they are..
    The Kramnik versus Deep Fritz is taking place soon. The rules have been published by the organizer. With a lot of misunderstanding regarding the rules in Elista, it is important that we know the full facts before making judgment. Here are the official rules for the match:

    DATES
    Six games will be played on the days 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 where day 1 is 25 day of November 2006. The games commence at 3.00 pm and end at 9.00 pm at which time Mr Kramnik will have the right either to continue with the game or to adjourn it to the next day.

    TIME CONTROL
    In each game the Players shall each have to make 40 moves in two hours followed by 16 moves per hour thereafter provided that in the event that a game has not been completed within six hours it may be adjourned to the following day at Mr Kramniks discretion when play will continue at the rate of 16 moves per hour for a further six hours.

    Mr. Kramnik shall have the right to adjourn any game after 56 moves even if six hours of play have not been completed. Should this right be exercised, play shall continue on the following rest day at the rate of 16 moves per hour.

    THE WINNER
    The winner of the match will be the first Player to score more than 3 points. It is intended to award the winner the World Chess Challenge Trophy.

    In the event that the match is decided before the six games set out in paragraph “Dates” have been played, Mr Kramnik will continue to play until the conclusion of the sixth game or offer his services in any way agreeable to both Parties.

    ARBITER AND MATCH DIRECTOR
    The match will be ruled and officiated by one arbiter. His decision regarding any interpretation of any of the rules of chess pertaining to this match shall be final and binding. The arbiter shall be selected by UEP and UEP shall inform Mr. Kramnik and Chessbase (CB) about the name of the arbiter as soon as possible but in no event later than 1 October 2006. UEP informs about its intention to contract Mr. Albert Vasse (Netherlands) being the arbiter of the WCC.

    UEP shall have the right to announce a WCC Match Director who will be responsible for all necessary communication and administration during the match (with the Players, the Arbiter, the sponsors, the press, the local organisation at venue and other parties involved). For the avoidance of doubt: The Match Director has no influence or responsibility on the Arbiter’s decisions and shall have no influence regarding any interpretation of any rules of chess and any rules of the WCC which is solely a responsibility of the Arbiter.

    THE COMPUTER OPERATOR
    The CB Team will designate an Operator and up to two Reserve Operators. The Operator is the only person who may interact with Deep Fritz during the game. The Operator may not interact with Deep Fritz while Mr. Kramnik’s clock is running. The Operator may adjust the clock times used by Deep Fritz only within 15 seconds of Deep Fritz’s clock being activated.

    During the game, the Operator may be replaced by a Reserve Operator should the Operator be unable to perform for any extended period of time. Any replacement of Operator must be authorized by the Arbiter.

    The Operator will take all reasonable measures to insure that their activities do not distract Mr. Kramnik.

    OPENING BOOKS
    The computer will consult an opening book during the game. During the match, the opening book may not be modified, except that up to 10 ply of additional moves may be added in the opening variation of the game which has most recently been played (not counting adjournment sessions) and the weightings of specific moves may be modified so that the different variations, already present in the opening book, will be preferred by the program.

    All opening book modifications will be entered by the Arbiter before the game according to the material confidentially provided to them by the Deep Fritz Team. A member of the Deep Fritz Team will be present and if necessary guide the Arbiter through the necessary steps of operation.

    At the conclusion of each game the Arbiter will attempt to replicate the opening of the game on a computer which has the opening book and program as delivered to the Kramnik Team and the Arbiter. If they find any discrepancies, the Deep Fritz Team is required to explain these to the satisfaction of the arbiter.

    If a violation of this rule is determined by the Arbiter, the penalty may include loss of the game.
    As long as Deep Fritz is “in book”, that is playing moves from memory and not calculating variations, Mr. Kramnik sees the display of the Deep Fritz opening book. For the current board position he sees all moves, including all statistics (number of games, ELO performance, score) from grandmaster games and the move weighting of Deep Fritz. To this purpose, Mr. Kramnik uses his own computer screen showing the screen of the Deep Fritz machine with book display activated.

    As soon as Deep Fritz starts calculating variations during the game the operator informs the arbiter. The arbiter confirms this on the screen of the playing machine and then shuts down the second screen.

    ENDGAME TABLEBASES
    The use of a database of endgame positions (“Tablebase&rdquo is permitted only if the tablebase contains positions with a total five total pieces or less, including kings.

    When Deep Fritz identifies the board position in a tablebase, it must inform the Arbiter, who will then stop the clocks.

    In the presence of the Arbiter, the Operator will inform Mr. Kramnik that the position has been located in the tablebase.

    If the position is evaluated by the tablebase as winning for the side played by Deep Fritz, the Operator will inform Mr. Kramnik of that fact in the presence of the Arbiter. The game will continue, unless Mr. Kramnik chooses to resign.

    If the position is evaluated by the tablebase as winning for the side played by Mr. Kramnik, the Operator will inform Mr. Kramnik of that fact in the presence of the Arbiter. The game will continue unless the Deep Fritz Operator chooses to resign.

    If the position is evaluated by the tablebase as a draw, the Operator will inform Mr. Kramnik of that fact in the presence of the Arbiter. This will constitute an offer of a draw. The game will continue, unless the offer is accepted prior to the completion of Mr. Kramnik’s next move.

    It is recognized that the program will access tablebases in its calculations. The above rules apply only when the position on the board is present in the tablebase.

    DRAW OFFERS
    Mr. Kramnik may offer a draw at any time, regardless of whose turn it is. The Operator is authorized to accept or decline the draw on behalf of Deep Fritz.

    The Operator may offer a draw on behalf of Deep Fritz, however a draw may not be offered unless a previous offer by Mr. Kramnik has been declined.

    If Mr. Kramnik feels that the position is clearly drawn, he may notify the Arbiter and the Operator that he is making a claim of “technical draw”. The Arbiter will stop the clock. Mr. Kramnik will then explain his reasoning, and the Operator is obliged to accept the draw unless Deep Fritz can demonstrate that in the previous ten moves progress has been made.

    The Arbiter will determine the validity of the claim, and his decision shall be final and binding. Should he uphold the claim, the game will be declared drawn. If he rejects the claim, then the game continues.

    During the deliberations regarding a technical draw, the clocks will remain stopped. In the event the Arbiter reject the claim, the penalty will be deduction of the lesser of 5 minutes, or 10% percent of Mr. Kramnik’s remaining time. In the event a second claim of a technical draw is rejected in the same game, a 25% penalty will be assessed.

    SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE FAILURE
    Software or hardware failure is defined as the inability of the program to deliver a legal chess move to the operator.

    In the event of an obvious software or hardware failure, the arbiter will stop the clock and give the Deep Fritz Team 5 minutes to decide whether to resume with the same machine or replace it. After 5 minutes have elapsed, the arbiter will reactivate the clock.

    Before making a move, the Deep Fritz Team will indicate to the arbiter that they are ready to resume play. The arbiter will immediately inform Mr. Kramnik.

    After the Deep Fritz team informs the arbiter, any move made by the machine must be accepted as part of the game.

    Should the Deep Fritz Team decide that hardware repairs cannot be made, they may substitute a machine which is either configured exactly the same as the designated playing hardware, or may switch to a dual-processor or single processor machine. The Arbiter must approve any hardware modification or substitution, and may carry out tests to determine whether the provisions of this article are being met.

    POST-GAME CONFIRMATIONS
    After the conclusion of each game, the Deep Fritz Team shall provide a printout of the computer analysis of the game to the Arbiter and the Kramnik Team. This printout includes evaluation, search depth, expected move and thinking time.

    After each game, the Arbiter will be provided with an opportunity to compare the opening book used in the game with the opening book used in previous games.

    DISCLOSURE OF MATCH ENGINE
    By October 1, 2006, Mr. Kramnik and the arbiter will receive the final match version of Deep Fritz. After this date only bug fixes are done on the engine, for example obvious crashes or obvious positional errors. No positional knowledge will be added. Should the engine be modified in any way after 1 October 2006 Chessbase will notify Mr. Kramnik’s team and the Arbiter in writing about this specific change and demonstrate its effect on a test position. In any case Chessbase guarantees that any change after October 1, 2006, will not influence general playing style and tactical strength and confirms that the engine code...
  2. 20 Nov '06 21:47
    It is but a novelty to pit a single human mind against a collection of thousands.

    For the sake of upset, I hope kramnik wins.
  3. 20 Nov '06 22:26 / 1 edit
    Kramnik will crush Fritz. No doubt. I say this because Kramnik plays a clearly classical game, and he is a very positional player. Computers are no good against positional players like Kramnik. If Kramnik were a tactica maestro who throws tactical blows more than he does positional factors, I would say otherwise. But, in my opinion, Kramnik will destroy Fritz. I just hope I'm right for the sake of the human race.
  4. 27 Nov '06 06:06
    Kramnik will not beat Frizt since Frizt knows a lot more about the game than Vlad and Fritz is the clear favourtie.
  5. 27 Nov '06 06:08
    Originally posted by hamishshierlaw
    Kramnik will not beat Frizt since Frizt knows a lot more about the game than Vlad and Fritz is the clear favourtie.
    Fritz knows a hell of a lot less about chess then Kramnik.
  6. Standard member HomerJSimpson
    Renouned Grob Killer
    27 Nov '06 06:11
    Originally posted by Bedlam
    Fritz knows a hell of a lot less about chess then Kramnik.
    Emphasis on a "A HELL OF A ALOT"
  7. 02 Jan '07 13:19
    Originally posted by powershaker
    Kramnik will crush Fritz. No doubt. I say this because Kramnik plays a clearly classical game, and he is a very positional player. Computers are no good against positional players like Kramnik. If Kramnik were a tactica maestro who throws tactical blows more than he does positional factors, I would say otherwise. But, in my opinion, Kramnik will destroy Fritz. I just hope I'm right for the sake of the human race.
    http://chessville.com/News/news_KramnikvsDeepFritz2006.htm

    final score, 4-2, fritz with 2 wins and 4 draws.

    sorry
  8. 02 Jan '07 13:38 / 1 edit
    It should also be pointed out that there was a bit of controversy during this series of matches. I was reading the chess section of the local paper a few weeks back (can't recall the date), and it mentioned the first match had been completed. Kramnik got beat in a disastrous oversight as Fritz was able to checkmate him in a simple move that any beginner player should be able to see.

    I guess it's more of a conspiracy theory than actual controversy, but I believe Kramnik may have been paid off to purposely lose. Fritz now has a selling point - "beat the number one player in the world". Great marketing tool, that one is. Kramnik just made the payoff so obvious that anyone that actually cares about chess should be able to see it.

    Or maybe I've just lost faith in the human race

    Regards,
  9. 02 Jan '07 14:18 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by ParanoidAndroid
    It should also be pointed out that there was a bit of controversy during this series of matches. I was reading the chess section of the local paper a few weeks back (can't recall the date), and it mentioned the first match had been completed. Kramnik got beat in a disastrous oversight as Fritz was able to checkmate him in a simple move that any beg should be able to see it.

    Or maybe I've just lost faith in the human race

    Regards,
    Fritz was the overwhelming favourite for the match, when he was (unjustly) accused of cheating what form of cheating did you think they meant....using Fritz (or similar). Also Krammy would also have got an additional win bonus of another 500,000$

    If your post was a joke then you got me, but it read as if you meant it
  10. 02 Jan '07 15:07
    Originally posted by powershaker
    Kramnik will crush Fritz. No doubt. I say this because Kramnik plays a clearly classical game, and he is a very positional player. Computers are no good against positional players like Kramnik. If Kramnik were a tactica maestro who throws tactical blows more than he does positional factors, I would say otherwise. But, in my opinion, Kramnik will destroy Fritz. I just hope I'm right for the sake of the human race.
    In 1997 Kasparov played a six-match game against Deep Blue.
    In the second game he played a wonderful anti-computer strategy, but Deep Blue won, even though it had to have a thinking session of 15 minutes.
    Fritz and the Deep Fritz are the same, I think.
    I'm still rooting for Kramnik but I am a realist. Which is good because my abilities aren't that great!
  11. 02 Jan '07 15:08
    Originally posted by GaranhunsGladiator
    fron susan polgars blog, they are long and tedious but here they are..
    The Kramnik versus Deep Fritz is taking place soon. The rules have been published by the organizer. With a lot of misunderstanding regarding the rules in Elista, it is important that we know the full facts before making judgment. Here are the official rules for the match:

    D ...[text shortened]... l not influence general playing style and tactical strength and confirms that the engine code...
    You're right. They are long and tedious. Why should we care? A discussion about the match is fine, but I for one am not interested in a long list of rules.
  12. 04 Jan '07 05:30 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by stevetodd
    Fritz was the overwhelming favourite for the match, when he was (unjustly) accused of cheating what form of cheating did you think they meant....using Fritz (or similar). Also Krammy would also have got an additional win bonus of another 500,000$

    If your post was a joke then you got me, but it read as if you meant it
    It was no joke. Kramnik allowed himself to get checkmated by a move even a beginner chess player could see.

    Second match on November 27, 2006
    Kramnik's Brilliant Game Ends with a Cruel Defeat


    Thanks to an unbelievable error made by the World Champion in the 34th move, today's second match in World Chess Challenge 2006 came to an abrupt conclusion. Vladimir Kramnik (Russia) wasted a brilliant game and an extraordinary position by completely overlooking a one-move checkmate against chess computer Deep Fritz (Germany). Deep Fritz checkmated the World Champion by moving its queen to h7. After playing two of the six matches, the computer has taken the lead with 1.5 to 0.5 points.


    Source - http://chess.about.com/od/chrono/a/cc06kbon.htm

    THey're calling it an "unbelievable error". And to me, it certainly looks unbelievable, and just a little suspicious. Hell, when I looked at the board position, I could see the checkmate straight away. Something's not kosher.
  13. 04 Jan '07 17:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ParanoidAndroid
    It was no joke. Kramnik allowed himself to get checkmated by a move even a beginner chess player could see.

    [i][b]Second match on November 27, 2006
    Kramnik's Brilliant Game Ends with a Cruel Defeat


    Thanks to an unbelievable error made by the World Champion in the 34th move, today's second match in World Chess Challenge 2006 came to an abr d at the board position, I could see the checkmate straight away. Something's not kosher.[/b]
    Well of course I know about the game you are talking about it was discussed on this forum at the time. But why would Kramnik loss on purpose and loss the 0.5m $ win bonus, that means the manufacturer's of Fritz would have to pay him more than that win bonus to throw a match that Fritz was always likely to win in any case.
  14. 04 Jan '07 21:13
    Nobody really benefitted from the blunder, including the Fritz team. The match was a chance to showcase the new Fritz package but much of the discussion shifted to the world champion's moment of cerebral flatulence. It also calls into question the future of matches such as this and Fritz especially, which was designed more to compete with humans than with other computers, can only stand to lose from this.