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  1. 08 May '10 10:20
    Has anybody tried the opening e4, e5, c4? What would you guys out there make of it? I like to try my hand at off beat openings once in a while, makes the game more interesting.
  2. 08 May '10 11:30 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by hintjul
    Has anybody tried the opening e4, e5, c4? What would you guys out there make of it? I like to try my hand at off beat openings once in a while, makes the game more interesting.
    Looks awful to me [d4 is a serious weakness]. I'd start funnelling knights into d4 after 2... Bc5.

    White's d pawn is also backward.

    Edit: Maybe it's playable if White can get in an early d4. Black's plan will be to prevent this move. 2. c4 is not a move I'd play, though.
  3. 08 May '10 13:04
    Cheers, looks dodgy, better just stick to the normal theory.
  4. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    08 May '10 13:29
    Originally posted by hintjul
    Cheers, looks dodgy, better just stick to the normal theory.
    The best sound opening, with such a pawn formation, which I can get you is the Botvinnik System, in the English opening:

  5. 08 May '10 13:29
    Originally posted by hintjul
    Cheers, looks dodgy, better just stick to the normal theory.
    Well, I'm no authority but it seems that White relinquishes all advantage with 2. c4. To me it just looks wrong. Maybe a stronger player will have a different take on it.

    If Black just develops normally there is the pawn fork trick on d4:



    This still favours Black in my opinion.

    With best play Black has a very comfortable position:

  6. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    08 May '10 14:11
    Originally posted by Green Paladin
    With best play Black has a very comfortable position:
    so then it's just chess from there on. maybe that's exactly what the whalers want?

    I'm watching a couple of gms blitzing on icc right now, and neither of them has played a single book opening in the last 10 games or so. they just start with something, then work it into a playable solid position. then it just chess. both are rated around 3000 now, one with a top rating of 3500 and the other 3300.
  7. 08 May '10 14:32
    Originally posted by wormwood
    so then it's just chess from there on. maybe that's exactly what the whalers want?

    I'm watching a couple of gms blitzing on icc right now, and neither of them has played a single book opening in the last 10 games or so. they just start with something, then work it into a playable solid position. then it just chess. both are rated around 3000 now, one with a top rating of 3500 and the other 3300.
    The difference is that you have to first overcome the deficiencies in the position before it's 'just chess'. Why choose such an inferior position for the sake of getting your opponent out of book?

    I agree there's a place for taking your opponent out of their preparation to your position's detriment. In blitz, especially.
  8. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    08 May '10 14:59
    Originally posted by hintjul
    Has anybody tried the opening e4, e5, c4? What would you guys out there make of it?
    As I asked in an earlier thread ... what do you hope to achieve by playing this move?

    This is the real question. Personally, I'm not sure I see the point of playing 2. c4. It doesn't develop a piece and doesn't open lines to allow future development. It doesn't even add to the control of the centre since White's pawn on e4 already covers d5.

    The Botvinnik system is a different matter entirely. I play that quite a bit. I wouldn't play 2. c4 though. Not even in a blitz game.
  9. 08 May '10 15:03
    Originally posted by hintjul
    Has anybody tried the opening e4, e5, c4? What would you guys out there make of it? I like to try my hand at off beat openings once in a while, makes the game more interesting.
    There are a lot worse offbeat openings than this. At best, its equal for black.

    I think its worth it to experiment with offbeat openings, if, for no other reason, to expose yourself to a wider variety of positions. And you do often catch your opponent offguard and get into positions you know better than he does. Eventually, though, it pays to come back and play the more conventional stuff.
  10. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    08 May '10 15:21
    Originally posted by Erekose
    There are a lot worse offbeat openings than this. At best, its equal for black.
    Well that's true ... i'd probably leave out the 'at best' bit but otherwise I'd have to agree with both of your sentences.

    That doesn't answer the question of what the point of 2. c4 is though.
  11. 08 May '10 15:23
    Thanks everyone for the responses thus far, appreciated.
  12. 08 May '10 15:45
    How about the opening, e4, e5, a3? not sure what the opening is called though.
  13. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    08 May '10 15:51
    Originally posted by hintjul
    How about the opening, e4, e5, a3? not sure what the opening is called though.
    it's called the are-you-gonna-just-throw-in-random-moves-without-even-trying-and-thus-wasting-everyone's-time system.
  14. 08 May '10 15:53
    Originally posted by hintjul
    How about the opening, e4, e5, a3? not sure what the opening is called though.
    Always have a reason for playing a move. 2. a3 is a waste. You may as well be playing Black. If I was playing Black against this I'd play a normal king's pawn opening with colours reversed... probably 2... Nf6. Now White will be responding to Black's threats.
  15. 08 May '10 16:05
    Originally posted by hintjul
    How about the opening, e4, e5, a3? not sure what the opening is called though.
    I'd rather play 1 e4 e5 2. c4 than 2 a3.

    One decent e4 opening featuring a3 is:

    1 e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 2. Nc3 Nf6 4. a3. Then a3 has a real point, preventing black for playing Bb4 (especially after white plays 5 d4, if black lets him).