I would place Euwe at around 20 to 30 in the all time list. That's based on what he achieved rather than his games, i.e. being one of the top five for a decade or so and beating one of the greatest ever in a World Championship match.
Some players who are clearly above him (in no particular order):
Kasparov, Fischer, Karpov, Lasker, Alekhine, Capablanca, Botvinnik, Tal (? I can never decide if Tal was one the super-elite or not).
Then there are the players not quite up to the standard of the above, but probably still better than Euwe, including Spassky, Petrosian, Pillsbury, Steinitz, Smyslov, Korchnoi, Rubinstein, Tarrasch, Nimzowitsch, Keres.
It's difficult to judge current crop of players, but obviously Anand, Kramnik, Topalov are destined to be considered some of the best players ever, and Ivanchuck has been successful for long enough to join the second group.
There are a few historical players like Morphy and Anderssen who, although very strong for their time, didn't play nearly as much chess against players near their own ability for them to be considered as strong as those who came after them. (In my opinion, though most people disagree with me about Morphy).
It's partly going to depend on what you mean by the "top players of all time". Do you mean the strongest - in which case you need to find some way of comparing players from different eras? Or are you looking for those that are most dominant during their own time - which would ignore such things as the overall standard of competition.
There's a short article on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparing_top_chess_players_throughout_history - which discusses some of the different approaches.
Originally posted by mtthwhttp://www.chessmetrics.com is interesting on this subject.
It's partly going to depend on what you mean by the "top players of all time". Do you mean the strongest - in which case you need to find some way of comparing players from different eras? Or are you looking for those that are most dominant during their own time - which would ignore such things as the overall standard of competition.
There's a short artic ...[text shortened]... ing_top_chess_players_throughout_history - which discusses some of the different approaches.
Originally posted by FabianFnasThat makes sense only if you would place him in the top 20 of all chessplayers based on their play so far. Is that what you wanted to say?
Actually, we don't know yet.
When all times is up, then we may have the answer.
The most of the time lies in the future.
Originally posted by Mephisto2Well, sort of.
That makes sense only if you would place him in the top 20 of all chessplayers based on their play so far. Is that what you wanted to say?
"of all time" is rather unspecific. "of all time so far" is somewhat better."
Perhaps I should place a 😵 in my posting...
Originally posted by Fat LadyIn a way it is a rather pointless exercise. If you mean in an absolute sense of quality of chess, then all 20 would be modern players. But if you are comparing players to their contemporaries (fairer in my opinion), then the likes of Morphy, Steinitz, and Lasker would have to appear in any such list.
I would place Euwe at around 20 to 30 in the all time list. That's based on what he achieved rather than his games, i.e. being one of the top five for a decade or so and beating one of the greatest ever in a World Championship match.
Some players who are clearly above him (in no particular order):
Kasparov, Fischer, Karpov, Lasker, Alekhine, Capablanc ...[text shortened]... those who came after them. (In my opinion, though most people disagree with me about Morphy).
From chessbase (a huge bias towards inflated modern ratings)
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2489
1 Kasparov, Gary RUS 2851 1999.07
2 Kramnik, Vladimir RUS 2809 2002.01
3 Anand, Viswanathan IND 2797 2001.07
4 Topalov, Veselin BUL 2788 2005.07
5 Fischer, Robert USA 2785 1972.04
6 Karpov, Anatoly RUS 2780 1994.07
7 Leko, Peter HUN 2763 2005.04
8 Morozevich, Alexander RUS 2758 1999.07
9 Adams, Michael ENG 2755 2000.07
10 Ivanchuk, Vassily UKR 2752 2005.07
11 Shirov, Alexei ESP 2751 2000.01
12 Svidler, Peter RUS 2747 2004.01
13 Kamsky, Gata USA 2745 1996.07
14 Ponomariov, Ruslan UKR 2743 2002.04
15 Bareev, Evgeny RUS 2739 2003.10
16 Polgar, Judith HUN 2735 2005.07
17 Grischuk, Alexander RUS 2732 2003.07
18 Bacrot, Etienne FRA 2731 2005.04
19 Aronian, Levon ARM 2724 2005.07
20 Gelfand, Boris ISR 2724 2005.07
This list looks more reasonable though:
http://tinyurl.com/38zb67
Beginning:
1. Kasparov
2. Lasker
3. Capablanca
4. Botvinnik
5. Fischer
6. Karpov
7. Alekhine
8. Anand
9. Kramnik
10. Pillsbury
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Originally posted by luctrucIf you're looking for the greatest naturals then Capa and Morphy along with fischer have to top the list, However for shear dedication, hard work and preparation you'd have to go with the likes of either Kasparov or Alekhine. two playes who of course were blessed with unrivalled calculative abilities.
Is Max Euwe one of them? Answers graded for courtesy.
Unfortunately the rest just make up the numbers.
Originally posted by Squelchbelchi like this list a lot better... although i think petrosian should get a nod..
This list looks more reasonable though:
http://tinyurl.com/38zb67
Beginning:
1. Kasparov
2. Lasker
3. Capablanca
4. Botvinnik
5. Fischer
6. Karpov
7. Alekhine
8. Anand
9. Kramnik
10. Pillsbury