When I hear about players who "don't cheat with computer programs but do use opening database's," I get a little confused...
Are these Database's the lists of openings that I can access on my computer chess program?
If so...at what point is it not ok to keep using the computer for your next move? I am very confused...
Originally posted by BofaschwaDatabases are records of past games or openings. For example you could keep a database for a few hundred thousand game or more and refer to them when you play a game. You can basically refer to any game that has been already played. But it is considered cheating when you use a chess engine to calculate your next move for you.
When I hear about players who "don't cheat with computer programs but do use opening database's," I get a little confused...
Are these Database's the lists of openings that I can access on my computer chess program?
If so...at what point is it not ok to keep using the computer for your next move? I am very confused...
But aren't those very databases calculating your moves for you?
The program I have has a very thorough database of many openings and variations. Is can be followed though the first dozen or so moves at the very least. It would seem to me you could just follow those openings and end up with a killer position. How is this not cheating?
Originally posted by BofaschwaThe databases aren't "calculating" anything; they are only telling you what moves were made in the past. You will not end up in a "killer position" 99% of the time by using a databases; databases contain Grandmaster and other top level players' games and these are rarely decided by opening blunders. The bottom line is it's not "cheating" in correspondence chess because the rules allow the use of books and databases as those give you what moves were made in the past, but forbid the use of chess engines because they suggest moves to you.
But aren't those very databases calculating your moves for you?
The program I have has a very thorough database of many openings and variations. Is can be followed though the first dozen or so moves at the very least. It would seem to me you could just follow those openings and end up with a killer position. How is this not cheating?
I recently used a database on the QID game I had, and using the percentages, and the moves played by a past GM game, I played a move I would probably not have played otherwise... now this is allowed by the site, but still feel just because this has been played in the past I should not necessarily be allowed to use this knowledge. As someone mentionned on a previous post, whats the difference between this and an endgames database?!
Originally posted by welsharnieThis is a very tiresome debate we've had here many times; the bottom line is that correspondence chess always allowed the use of books and opening databases are like collections of games that have been used by correspondence players for hundreds of years. Please go to the other thread for the difference between computer-generated endgame tablebases and databases of Grandmaster and other top player's games.
I recently used a database on the QID game I had, and using the percentages, and the moves played by a past GM game, I played a move I would probably not have played otherwise... now this is allowed by the site, but still feel just because this has been played in the past I should not necessarily be allowed to use this knowledge. As someone mentionned on a previous post, whats the difference between this and an endgames database?!
Originally posted by CenterNutOpening databases have always been a part of correspondance chess. I study chess in my free time. Should I not be able to do that just in case I see an opening move in a game I'm playing.
It is cheating .. but somehow people on this site justify it. they say its hard to enforce.
P.S moderaters stop deleting my voice and opinions
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Originally posted by CenterNutIT IS NOT CHEATING. FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. IT IS PERMITTED IN THE RULES OF CORROSPONDENCE CHESS. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP SAYING IT IS.
It is cheating .. but somehow people on this site justify it. they say its hard to enforce.
P.S moderaters stop deleting my voice and opinions
ps. moderatOrs will probably stop deleting your posts if you stoped going against FACT rather than opinion.
pps. actually I hope you continue to believe that, hopefully you'll never touch a chess book your entire life while playing corrospondence and be forever condemned to mediocrity.
I think you're overlooking the point I am making.. it dont matter if its in the rules I know its in the rules and allowed.. BUT
My Opinion is its Cheating..
How can it be cheating if its not aginst the rules..
I like to play chess by chess rules..
it is easilly classified as cheating by the fact that you're using additional resources to win..
anyway you keep cheating i'll keep playing/learning..
you keep copying from others.. i'll keep learning to learn from others and my own mistakes.
Originally posted by CenterNutNope, you won't be learning from others. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES!!! OH NOES!!!!111oneoneone. Looks like you won't be talking about your games to anyone, nor even posting on the forums, because we might help you, not aware of your quest to purge the chess world of outside help.
I think you're overlooking the point I am making.. it dont matter if its in the rules I know its in the rules and allowed.. BUT
My Opinion is its Cheating..
How can it be cheating if its not aginst the rules..
I like to play chess by chess rules..
it is easilly classified as cheating by the fact that you're using additional resources to win..
anyway ...[text shortened]... .
you keep copying from others.. i'll keep learning to learn from others and my own mistakes.
Originally posted by CenterNutIf you feel that way stop playing correspondance chess. As I said before it's been allowed in correspondance since it was played by postcard. It's part of the game.
I think you're overlooking the point I am making.. it dont matter if its in the rules I know its in the rules and allowed.. BUT
My Opinion is its Cheating..
How can it be cheating if its not aginst the rules..
I like to play chess by chess rules..
it is easilly classified as cheating by the fact that you're using additional resources to win..
anyway ...[text shortened]... .
you keep copying from others.. i'll keep learning to learn from others and my own mistakes.
You haven't answered my question. How can I study chess if I have to avoid reading anything on openings I'm playing on here?
Originally posted by Dfthdlook kid if you can truely believe this is not a form of cheating (cos its in the rules) then continue as you're. I never said leanring opening thory is cheating.. all im saying is using addtional resources to aid your game (tells me how weak player you're). and for your info KID. I wont be asking for any help in these forums as I know how to use search engines..
Nope, you won't be learning from others. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES!!! OH NOES!!!!111oneoneone. Looks like you won't be talking about your games to anyone, nor even posting on the forums, because we might help you, not aware of your quest to purge the chess world of outside help.
but will feal free to post my comments and opinions,
and you cant stop me.
and imo if people use databases then they might aswell use chess engine because they use databases too. it would just make there search for a move bit quicker..
Originally posted by CenterNutCenternut's posts. Now with 50% more not listening to anyone else.
look kid if you can truely believe this is not a form of cheating (cos its in the rules) then continue as you're. I never said leanring opening thory is cheating.. all im saying is using addtional resources to aid your game (tells me how weak player you're). and for your info KID. I wont be asking for any help in these forums as I know how to use search ...[text shortened]... engine because they use databases too. it would just make there search for a move bit quicker..
Originally posted by CenterNutIf it is allowed in the rules of correspondence chess then it is not cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules in the activity you are involved in, not the rules in a different one. You may think the rule is wrong, in which case you can criticise it as much as you like, but you should not accuse people of cheating for doing something the rules allow.
look kid if you can truely believe this is not a form of cheating (cos its in the rules) then continue as you're. I never said leanring opening thory is cheating..
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and imo if people use databases then they might aswell use chess engine because they use databases too. it would just make there search for a move bit quicker..