What is this defense and what do u think of it?

Let me explain a bit more...

Always loved chess, but always became frustrated at how much better most people were. Just recently (like just in the last week), I decided to really study the game. In order to jump into it, I've decided to take the one plan I've ever followed (I'm horrid as white), and get to know the real theory behind it. I've just started recording all my games and have started replaying them to find my mistakes. The above defense is the closest I've ever been to a real "game plan" so it seemed like a logical first step in "training" myself.

I have about 20 games I'm in the middle of where I play this opening. I do see a few problems but I'll post em up when they're far enough along in order to discuss the opening 10 or so moves.

Also, thanx for any insight thus far!


-Kevin

Okay man, since you want to improve, I'll comment on every move here, and show you why you should immediately throw this line in the trash can. This is how a sample game might go against a strong player:

1. e4

This and 1. d4 are the popular and respected lines in chess. White immediately grabs space in the center and opens lines for development.

1...g6

This move is called the Modern Defense. Black declares his intention to play 2...Bg7 and allows White to grab as much central space as he'd like. Black almost always plays ...d6 and looks for a central counterstrike on the dark squares, normally by ...c5 or ...e5 later.

2. d4

White grabs more central space while he can.

2...Bg7

Of course, Black looks to develop in a logical fashion and hopes to castle after he develops the ...Ng8 somewhere.

3. Nc3

This is the most popular move here, although 3. c4 is also a logical choice. Your choice, 3. Be3, is not a bad move at all, but generally it's best to develop the pieces who's location you're certain about. c3 is clearly the best square for the knight since it controls the most center squares. 3. Nd2 hangs the d-pawn as well as seriously impeding White's development. 3. Na3 puts a knight on a terrible square where it has no influence on the game. But where does the bishop go? It might go to e3, it might go to g5, it might stay home for a while. It's unclear, so don't move it yet! There is a general rule that says, 'knights before bishops'.

3...Nh6?

This move is pretty terrible. Black places a knight on the rim, where it controls half as many squares as it would on f6, but additionally in this particular structure, the knight might run short of squares if White plays h3 or f3 and Black castles.

4. h3!?

This move isn't strictly necessary for White, and normally early flank paw moves like this are frowned upon, but here White restricts Black's knight to the crappy h6 square and waits to commit any of his other pieces to any other squares. He's playing strictly to punish you for putting your knight on h6.

4...0-0

Black castles his king to safety, but once again, this leaves his knight in some trouble.

5. Be3!

Now White commits his bishop to a square since he has a concrete threat of 6. Qd2, winning a piece. Now Black has to find some way to rescue his knight, the best way probably being...

5...f6

Black frees the f7-square for his knight. An embarassing move to have to play, but you gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

6. Qd2

White develops with tempo and forcing the black knight to move back to f7.

6...Nf7

Forced.

7. Nf3

I don't know if this is strictly the best move, but it's principled. White quickly develops another piece towards the center. You could also consider 7. h4 or 7. 0-0-0.


Let's take stock of what happened. White developed his forces quickly and efficiently, taking advantage of the fact that Black put his knight on the crappy h6 square early in the opening. Black however, violated a principle and was forced to make concessions. He's accomplished nothing positive out of the opening, but instead has move his knight twice to a pretty bad square, pushing two pawns in front of his castled king, and blocking in his active bishop on g7. Not good!

I should also point out that while Black didn't get time for ...e6 in this game, in general, it's a very, very bad move to play if you've already played ...g6 and ...Bg7. Look at your dark squares after this move, specifically the f6-square. You're asking for trouble if you do this. White will seek to trade off your dark squared bishop and will then try to capitalize on your weak square complex. Also, remember how I said in the modern defense Black wants to play ...e5 or ...c5 later. Well, now if you play ...e5 later you've lost a move since you played ...e6, and if you play ...c5, you critically weaken the ...d6 square, another important dark square! Ouch!

Originally posted by !~TONY~!
Okay man, since you want to improve, I'll comment on every move here, and show you why you should immediately throw this line in the trash can. This is how a sample game might go against a strong player:

[b]1. e4

This and 1. d4 are the popular and respected lines in chess. White immediately grabs space in the center and opens lines for development ...[text shortened]... u critically weaken the ...d6 square, another important dark square! Ouch![/b]

Wouldn't 5....,Kh8 and retreating the knight back to g8 be better than moving the f-pawn?
If we move the f-pawn then wouldn't it be better to play 5....,f5 and at least give the impression to be on the attack.A moral boost for the men.Maybe even scare white if we're really lucky 😉

Hard to say which would be the lesser evil.

You are putting back you knight from where it came from, that is a very nervous knight.

Out to see the day, no, the sun is very tiring, back is in house to sleep again and wiat until the night....

Originally posted by Sophy
You are putting back you knight from where it came from, that is a very nervous knight.

Out to see the day, no, the sun is very tiring, back is in house to sleep again and wiat until the night....

He's not nervous,he just misunderstood his marching orders and went to h6 instead of f6.He needs to correct this or the king will execute him 😉

Originally posted by KevinMWHM
Let me explain a bit more...

Always loved chess, but always became frustrated at how much better most people were. Just recently (like just in the last week), I decided to really study the game....

It's great that you want to study and get better. I just recommend learning opening theory 1st. I recommend getting chessmaster 10th edition or chessmaster; the art of learning.

both of these have great lessons from josh waitzkin (from the book/movie: Searching for Bobby Fischer) and Larry Christiansen.

I had never played chess before. I bought that and before even playing my first game I went through the beginners lessons it had. I played about 30 games before I won the first tournament I ever played in. Granted it was a very weak tournament but a confidence booster nonetheless as I didn't understand ratings at the time.

It also has more to offer than just opening theory...

Excellent post Tony.

Seems every month somebody comes up with a new opening,
usually before they have mastered the principles of the old ones.

Chess players better than us have been looking for the 'secret'
opening for the past 200 years. There is no Holy Grail and there
are no new systems. Everything has been tried. The opening moves
are covered.

If you want to research an opening then look at some of the
well trodden paths for a new untried plan. You will have to look beyond
move 15-20 in most cases but new ideas are being found here year
in year out.

There is an opening sytem with g6/Bg7 that Stephan Gerzadowicz uses
where the Knight develops at h6. He has a fair amount of success with it.

Now remember people this guy is a good chess player.
He knows what he is doing and can play the game so don't expect
to bash out the following moves and rack in the points.

Here you can see the point of Nh6.
The e-pawn has been sucked forward so the Knight is eyeing f5.
H5 is played to put off g4 and use the h8 Rook to hold the Knight
on h6 should White employ the Be3 Qd2 battery.
After e6 the Knight has Nf5-h4 options.
The c6 pawn can start a pawn roller with b5 if White 0-0-0.
Black rarely castles, the centre is locked so the King is usually OK.

actually dear friends, this is the very first line in David Norwoods book, winning with the modern, i reproduce some of the details.

1.e4 g6, 2.d4 Bg7, 3.Nc3 c6,



why c6? well after 3.Nc3 d6, white has the option of playing the Austrian attack (4.f4), which Dave says is very unpleasant and needs lots of theory and we don't want that!

4.f4 as in greenpawns variations, white shall be assured of a space 'advantage', throughout the middle game.

4.d5 a direct challenge to the centre which cannot be ignored! the only way for white to preserve the pawn centre is to advance

5.e5 - Mr Norwood says, white has no alternative, any other move will lead to less known territory and white shall be on his lonesome after move 3, 'these days a considerable bonus!'.

1.e4 g6, 2.d4 Bg7, 3.Nc3 c6, 4.f4 d5, 5.e5



in true Macpo fashion, let us stare at the board and appreciate the aesthetic qualities of the pieces!

we generally observe that

1.the central pawns are blocked.
2.white has more space and can freely develop. eg.Be3, Bd3, 0-0.
3.whites dark squared bishop is restricted.
4.white has a clear plan available;g4, f5, and a kingside storm. white may also try to open up the centre with b3,c4.
5.black has less space but controls useful squares along c8-h3 diagonal.
6. the fianchettoed bishop has few prospects on a1-h8 diagonal, it therfore be redeployed along the f8-a3 diagonal, or possibly to h6.
7.it is less clear what plans black has available, pawn breaks such as c6-c5, or f7-f6 are double edged, and may open up lines for whites pieces, especialy the dark squared bishop. black may be able to expand on the queenside with a5-a4 and b5

black has now two sensible moves
5...h5
5...Nh6

Mr.Norwood prefers h5 and then Nh6, and although he states that 6...Nh6 is invariably played, it may not be the best move order for black, and cites a Fischer Petrosian game, Belgrade 1970, where petrosian played 6..Bg4.

continued..

Fischer v Petrosian , Belgrade 1970



and black is in good shape.

By delaying the move...Nh6, black keeps the option open of deploying the knight to e7, which may be a superior square!

Thank you all very much...

I am certainly not trying to pretend that I've found somthing awesome that none of you could see. I am sorry if my post seemed that way. My problem seemed to be that success against lesser opponents wasn't teaching me anything about the weakness in my system. Again, it's a comfort thing to play this line and learning how white exploits it isn't easy if the people I play don't do so.

I have more opening questions which I post in a new thread, but all of your insight in this thread in itself has been an eye opener.

Thanx Again


-Kevin