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  1. Standard member Eric LeFavour
    The guy
    18 Oct '09 12:16
    Hey all,
    I have been trying to play the Sicilian Dragon and have a question about when is it time to ditch in the opening. I mean, if white doesn't play Nf6 and plays Bc4 instead. I am getting this alot when I play c5 to whites e4. I am hoping they play Nf6 so I can follow what I understand to be "book". So I get Bc4 and am stumped. If my opponent does not follow the 1. e4 c5, 2. Nf6..... Should I ditch? And this Bc4? Is there a proper response. I have games in progress but they are all past Bc4, and I have moved, right or wrong. LOL I'm not looking for advice on current games, rather on how to use this opening more effectively. The Sicilian seems to have some versatility, however, if not played correctly, it can be a knife in the back. I am trying to avoid this demise and play through the growing pains of learning this potent defense. My uncle likes to play into the Najdorff (again, which I don't completely understand), because he is a bit conservative. I tend to be a bit aggressive and the dragon seems to fit my style. I like it but am still learning so it bites me in the hind end sometimes. Any advice? Just to make sure, is this right? 1. e4 c5 2. Nf6 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6.......... Also, if I do not get the 0-0-0 from white? Are there some "choice" responses for black?

    Eric
  2. 18 Oct '09 12:53
    2. Bc4 is generally considered a poor move as far as I am aware. I believe the correct response is 2...e6, (blocking the bishops line to f7) and preparing d4, which allows black to set up a strong center, seeing as the pawn move will also attack whites bishop.

    With 2. Bc4, white must be careful not lose time, central control or even the bishop itself.

    Here is one possible sequence of moves:

    1. e4 c5
    2. Bc4 e6
    3. Nf3 a6
    4. 0-0 b5
    5. Bb3? c4 - winning the bishop.

    Perhaps someone stronger could add their advice, I'm sure green-pawn will be along soon with yet another helpful post
  3. 18 Oct '09 14:51
    Greenpawn is going to say what he usually says.

    You should look at the games played by your brothers on

    http://www.timeforchess.com/gamesexplorer/

    This will give you ideas and warn you of potential pitfalls as
    played by players in the same class as yourself.

    This site is so under used. It's one of the best site on the net.

    You will see the moves you will face in your games.

    It baffles me why weak players only look at GM games.

    They are not going to play GM's and don't understand 50% of
    the stuff getting played as GM notes never stoop to their level.

    (sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't take prisoners).

    Look at these games in the opening that interest you.
    You will start to spot bad/good moves.

    Sometimes you will see a move you cannot figure why it was played.

    Good. Then you have to stop and do a bit of work and figure out why.

    (if you want to be a good chess player then there is work involved)

    If you cannot get it, click on and see if that reveals it.

    Sometimes it's just a 'nothing' move - a lemon.

    Good. You are starting to seperate the chaff from the good moves.
    This is an important part of your development.

    If you still cannot get it. then come on here and ask why.

    I went straight to the RHP database and followed a game in
    the 2.Bc4 line v the Sicilian.

    This position arose. Black has just played 11....c4!?



    I stopped here for a while seeing what he was up to.
    Why not 11...Bd6 hits the Queen and hold g7.

    (he has vacted c5 for his Bishop, he intends an attack on f2).

    He has an idea that sacs a piece and needs White NOT to spot it.

    It's a beautiful trap to set (this belongs in the Sting in Tail thread).

    You won't get this stuff in GM games.
    The possiblilty won't even be mentioned in a note.

    But you will see these ideas and moves in the games you play

    Black was graded 1377. (Eric you are currently 1372), learn
    from your brothers, the people you will be playing against.
    You will soon start advancing.

    Play over this. You will get an idea of a line v 2.Bc4 and see
    an old tactical trick brought to life in a new setting.
    And be entertained.

  4. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    18 Oct '09 15:13 / 1 edit
    I don't know how you're supposed to play against it, but I usually just ignore it (keeping an eye open for Qf3), and collect the free tempi in time by kicking the bishop around. in my games the opening usually turns into some kind of closed sicilian. never had problems against it as far as I remember. (the low rated often lose more time with a3 and tuck the worthless bishop in a2, and just let me box it in with expanding queenside pawns. I win space, they get a crap bishop, -works for me.)

    a bit strangely, there's nothing about it either in palliser's nor rogozenko's anti-sicilian books? maybe it just transposes so easily to main lines that it doesn't warrant independent treatment?

    according to my db at least kasparov, topalov and gelfand have simply ignored it by 1.e4 c5 2.Bc4 d6 3.Nf3 Nf6 with a slight statistical edge for black (45% 1800 games). kasparov's played 2.e6 against it as well. but why block your bishop until it's forced, right? that said, I don't play e6-sicilians so I wouldn't know.

    anyway, I do the usual, ignore (with caution) and develop. worked for me so far. although I do remember losing to a couple of blatantly wrong Bxf7+ sacs in blitz, due to my crap defence, but won most of them.
  5. 18 Oct '09 15:59
    1974
  6. Standard member Eric LeFavour
    The guy
    18 Oct '09 18:27
    Yes sir.
  7. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    19 Oct '09 01:49
    Originally posted by Eric LeFavour
    Hey all,
    I have been trying to play the Sicilian Dragon and have a question about when is it time to ditch in the opening. I mean, if white doesn't play Nf6 and plays Bc4 instead. I am getting this alot when I play c5 to whites e4. I am hoping they play Nf6 so I can follow what I understand to be "book". So I get Bc4 and am stumped. If my oppon ...[text shortened]... not get the 0-0-0 from white? Are there some "choice" responses for black?

    Eric
    I have also noticed that a large number of players on the site play the Bc4 line. If you play the Dragon, I think the best plan is to play like a Closed Sicilian (a ...g6/...Bg7 line), and make sure you are prepared in case White plays d4 instead of d3 and transposes back into an open Sicilian with Bc4. In that case, you are already set to transpose right back into a Dragon with them.

    I'm sure the line for White is solid, but it hasn't been particularly threatening, and I have dealt with it successfully using the above strategy and general principles.

    I have wondered if this Bc4 thing is the latest UK chess fad that will result in a new chess book on sale in 6 months or so. We'll see!

    Paul