Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 29 Sep '08 05:17 / 2 edits
    for example this game:

  2. 29 Sep '08 05:49 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by EmLasker
    [b]for example this game:
    I'd say after white's 15th or 16th move. I'm not getting this from anywhere, but endings generally have 3 or 4 pieces at most on each side. Before that it was a queenless middlegame. I have heard/read that term before. After move 16, it is clearly a rook ending.

    * Off Topic
    4. Bb5 with a Ruy Lopez or 4. Bc4 may be best.
    The move order 1. e4 d6 2.d4 e5 has been known to be equal with correct play for some time. A lot of players even play 3. Nf3 in that variation. Some have even gone so far to say that 1. d4 d6 2. c4 e5 3.dxe5 may be better for black. That's very debatable though. For many years 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 was a common move order to reach King's Indian Defense positions (4.dxe5 is equal ... Petrosian did however win a beautiful game with black in this variation.)
  3. 29 Sep '08 15:44 / 1 edit
    The definition of an endgame is not easy to define. Sometimes, you have entered the endgame when the queens leave the board, but this is not always true. There are queen endings. It is not always true, but the definition I like best is that you have entered the endgame when a king has assumed an active role in the game. And that works for this game.

    After 15. ... Kxd6 I would say that you have entered into an endgame. Note, both kings do not have to be active -- just one. In this game, for example the white king does not become active for several more moves.

    5. ... Kxd8 does not qualify the king as becoming active; he is just capturing a piece. The black king is not immune from attack and must remain inactive in fear of being captured. He must wait until more pieces have left the board before he feels safe enough to begin his sojourn.

    The game has entered an endgame long before 26. Kh2. At this point both kings are active.

    J.R. Capablanca, Max Euwe, Jeremy Silman, and many other grandmasters have dedicated a lot of time and print into trying to define when the endgame beings. There is not always an easy answer to this question.

    There are several books dedicated to describing openings that lead directly into and endgame. The most notable is the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation. Fischer revived the opening and you will find it played today when a player is seeking a grandmaster draw.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Sep '08 05:38
    When does the endgame start? I'd say when both players are down to 2 or less pieces and a number of pawns. Anymore pieces and your getting into the middlegame.
  5. 30 Sep '08 14:53 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    When does the endgame start? I'd say when both players are down to 2 or less pieces and a number of pawns. Anymore pieces and your getting into the middlegame.
    I wish it was that easy to define the endgame. John Nunn stated on page 174 of Tactical Chess Endings, "This looks almost like a middle-game position from an over-the-board encounter. Material is nearly balanced, but in view of the advanced a-pawn White must press his attack with all possible speed."

    q4kn1/4p3/2p1R3/6Q1/2PP1P1p/p5B1/2PK4/8

    #126 I. Kubbel, 1st Pr., 64 1925


    Capablanca's Best Chess Endings by Irving Chernev.

    Ending #21

    r3k2r/1p3ppp/2b1p3/p5q1/4P3/1N6/PP1Q1PPP/R4RK1


    Ending #22





    And there are many more examples. It has less to do with the number of pieces than it does purpose or objective.

    * I am limited to a single fen per message.
  6. 30 Sep '08 17:52
    The endgame starts with the first move of the game.
  7. 30 Sep '08 18:22
    Do not get bogged down with definitions of Endgame, Middlegame and Opening, because they don't exist. It's all chess.

    Use the terms by all means. They help split up an otherwise very complex game, but do not try to analyse where you should split it, because the fact is you can do so anywhere.

    Opening books often go to move 30, which many would consider middlegame. Tarrasch lines are sometimes done in deliberate attempts for IQP ENDINGS.

    Someone's already posted an ending study which clearly has lots of pieces on the board, so isn't that a middlegame?

    It doesn't really matter. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone to post that the endgame above stated at move 8 or anywhere onwards.

    If someone chooses a point before 8, then I'm skeptical of how serious they're being, or how helpful their splitting is, but they still have something of a case
  8. 30 Sep '08 18:28
    I'd say that the endgame starts with the initiation of the release of overall tensions between pieces on the board. The middle game is the buildup of tensions between pieces.
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    30 Sep '08 18:34
    on move #1. that's when you should start keeping an eye on how your moves affect the ending. often they won't, but you want to keep your options open for when the time comes.
  10. 01 Oct '08 16:17
    Originally posted by Ice Cold
    The endgame starts with the first move of the game.
    no, it is the first move past the middlegame.
  11. 01 Oct '08 16:42
    How about, the end game starts when anyone of the players try to promote their pawns.
  12. Standard member eldragonfly
    leperchaun messiah
    01 Oct '08 17:15
    the endgame starts after the middlegame.
  13. 01 Oct '08 22:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by raphael78
    How about, the end game starts when anyone of the players try to promote their pawns.
    That was the definition I was going to post, but you beat me to it.

    Another definition is that you've entered an endgame when the King becomes an aggessive piece.