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  1. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    20 Sep '10 01:40 / 2 edits


    Here is one of those classic "boring" endgames, N & R v B & R. Anyone have a clever idea?
  2. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Sep '10 02:45
    Originally posted by Exuma

    Here is one of those classic "boring" endgames, N & R v B & R. Anyone have a clever idea?
    yeah: agree to a draw, and NEVER let a game slide into this kind of frigid mud again.
  3. 20 Sep '10 02:56 / 1 edit
    You did not say which side you wanted the idea for.

    The line posted is all well known theory even from my day.

    If you need an early surprise OTB weapon as White then
    7.Nc3 instead on 7.Bxd5 (which everyone knows and plays)



    This will get you some time on the clock and put chummy into less explored territory.

    Most play 7...dxc4 (Bishops are better than Knights is the thought process)
    7...dxc3 was deemed better from a Black point of view but that was then
    these days it might have changed.

    Worth looking at and storing a few ideas and then flicking out
    to catch the unwary who may actually think 7...Nc3 is a blunder as it's not 'book'.

    Danial123 has played it a few times. Here his opponent walks into a trap losing
    a piece and then into a well known mating pattern. Game 1613489

  4. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    20 Sep '10 03:06
    Originally posted by Exuma
    [pgn]
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.O-O Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 {white has a cute solution to getting the piece back} 8.Nc3 Qa5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Neg5 O-O-O {black sacs the extra pawn for activity} 11.Nxe6 fxe6 12.Rxe6 Bd6 13.Qe2 Qh5
    14.h3 Rde8 15.Bd2 Ne5 16.Rxe8+ Rxe8 17.Nxd4 Qxe2 18.Nxe2 Nc4 {black gets his pawn back} 19.Be3 Nxe3
    20.fxe3 Rxe3 [/p ...[text shortened]...

    Here is one of those classic "boring" endgames, N & R v B & R. Anyone have a clever idea?
    Instead of 10. Ne4g5

    10. Bc1d2 Bf8b4 11. Nf3xd4 Nc6xd4 12. c3 Bb4e7 13. cxd4 Qa5d5 14. Bd2b4 Be7xb4 15. Qd1a4 Qd5d7 16. Qa4xb4
  5. 20 Sep '10 03:19 / 1 edit
    Chess Praxis what does this mean?

    10. Bc1d2 Bf8b4 11. Nf3xd4 Nc6xd4 12. c3 Bb4e7 13. cxd4 Qa5d5 14. Bd2b4 Be7xb4 15. Qd1a4 Qd5d7 16. Qa4xb4

    1½ out of 10 for that post and you go to the bottom of the class.

    It takes less than a minute.

  6. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    20 Sep '10 03:30 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Chess Praxis what does this mean?
    Chess is a board game, praxis means the practical application of knowledge.
    10. Bc1d2 Bf8b4 11. Nf3xd4 Nc6xd4 12. c3 Bb4e7 13. cxd4 Qa5d5 14. Bd2b4 Be7xb4 15. Qd1a4 Qd5d7 16. Qa4xb4
    That's fancy longhand notation for PGN.
    1½ out of 10 for that post and you go to the bottom of the class.
    Good God m ...[text shortened]... is the variation that bad?
    It takes less than a minute.
    Maybe for you, but I am quite old
    Thanks GP for your help, I think it is an interesting continuation, I believe it came from chesslive.com
  7. 20 Sep '10 03:53
    What do you mean you are too old.
    I'm older than you and I mastered it. 😉

    It is an interesting line, the Two Knights is loaded with with stuff like
    this in every variation.

    You can have these up your sleeve for 3...Nf6 and the Evans for 3...Bc5.
    3.Bc4 is good fun if you want to side step a Lopez.

    (who is Yurdansky?).
  8. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    20 Sep '10 04:56
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    What do you mean you are too old.
    I'm older than you and I mastered it. 😉

    It is an interesting line, the Two Knights is loaded with with stuff like
    this in every variation.

    You can have these up your sleeve for 3...Nf6 and the Evans for 3...Bc5.
    3.Bc4 is good fun if you want to side step a Lopez.

    (who is Yurdansky?).
    Peter Konstantinovich Yurdansky (Yurdanski, Yordansky, Jordansky) (1891–1937) was a Russian chess master. He won the Moscow City Chess Championship in 1913 and tied for 8-9th at Moscow 1913, shared 2nd at Mannheim 1914 tournament (the 19th DSB Congress, Hauptturnier B), took 2nd at Moscow 1915, took 3rd at Moscow 1916, tied for 7-8th at Moscow 1924, and took 10th at Moscow 1925.


    Yurdansky vs. Alekhine
    www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1011973
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Sep '10 14:16
    I thought he was asking for ideas for the endgame?
  10. 20 Sep '10 15:28
    Maybe he was.

    What he was given by me and Nimzo was not nothing startling
    it can be found with a bit research.
    He did not say which side he wanted the idea for either.

    Hi Nimzo, I had a Yurdansky joke ready that is why I asked.
    but that was 4am in the morning, 12 hours ago. I'll leave it. Sorry.
  11. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    20 Sep '10 16:22
    Originally posted by wormwood
    I thought he was asking for ideas for the endgame?
    Ha! I am no longer alone in the back of the class. The endgame starts with the first move of the game my friend. Every move is a step closer to the ending. 😏
  12. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    20 Sep '10 16:24
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Maybe he was.

    What he was given by me and Nimzo was not nothing startling
    it can be found with a bit research.
    He did not say which side he wanted the idea for either.

    Hi Nimzo, I had a Yurdansky joke ready that is why I asked.
    but that was 4am in the morning, 12 hours ago. I'll leave it. Sorry.
    I heard you and Dan shared a key. So It's Your Dan's key. 😀
  13. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    20 Sep '10 16:52
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    Ha! I am no longer alone in the back of the class. The endgame starts with the first move of the game my friend. Every move is a step closer to the ending. 😏
    ...and most of those those 'early endgame moves' aim to avoid heading for a dead drawn endgame like here, unless the player is trying to draw by sucking all life out of the position.
  14. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    21 Sep '10 07:58
    Sorry was gone for while. These boring endgames - totally drawn really? Is there still room for creativity? I was looking for a good move for white - seems like Kf2 is the standard move. I guess I'm hoping that someone can come up with a concept, or an idea for what to aim for here. Yes it looks lifeless. Sometimes so does the starting position if you are chess tired?!
  15. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    21 Sep '10 13:19
    Originally posted by Exuma
    Yes it looks lifeless. Sometimes so does the starting position if you are chess tired?!
    that's why it's said that at the start of the game white's in zugzwang.

    the thing is, if there are no imbalances, there's nothing to play for. symmetric position equals dead even position. until that symmetry is broken, there's nothing to do. regarding your position, the pawns would be eventually pushed and lock into a symmetrical position, or something very close to it. in a blitz game a gm would probably just mirror the opponent's pawn moves without much thought, and that would be it. draw agreed. in a slow game the GMs would probably draw the second the kind of final position of your game was in the horizon.

    so, if you wanna win, you aim to break that balance somehow, anyhow. even giving up material to do it. starting from move 1. but the same applies to pretty much every stage of the game.

    now a second thing comes to play, the amount of material on the board. not the value of them, who's winning etc, but the general number of wood on the board. the more there's stuff, the harder to keep it all together. more moving parts in a machine, and the complexity explodes exponentially. complex is what you want to get. not complex enough for the result becoming a coin toss (although some like that as well), but complex enough to force inaccuracies and errors in the game. which you then try to use to your advantage. - which also means, every time you exchange anything off the board, your winning potential decreases. that goes doubly for pawns.


    I hope that made some sense, I probably didn't write it very clearly. this is all very general stuff, and there are always exceptions (ie. tricks). could even be your position is an exception, but I really really really doubt it.