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Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Mar '06 21:54 / 2 edits
    Ok, you have this superscience making a shaft, big one, say
    50 feet wide, going all the way to the center of the earth and back up
    so it connects to its antipode.
    Its set up so there are magnetic transformers along the route so
    something conductive falling will generate energy, this tunnel
    is not used for transport, just to collect energy.
    Obviously self limiting but suppose you drop 1 million KG of iron
    into the tunnel and there are magnetic fields all the way to the bottom
    which will convert the kinetic energy to electricity.
    Not worrying about the energy cost of building such a shaft, they
    were done by Von Neumann robots who just ate their way through
    and make superhard coatings which withstands the forces and heat
    deep inside the earth. So assuming 50% efficiency, how much
    energy does the system generate from this falling mass, 1E6 Kg on
    its way to the center of the earth?
    You can see that if the kinetic energy was all sucked out of the mass
    and converted to electricity, the mass would stop at the center,
    or close to.
  2. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    05 Mar '06 23:04
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Ok, you have this superscience making a shaft, big one, say
    50 feet wide, going all the way to the center of the earth and back up
    so it connects to its antipode.
    Its set up so there are magnetic transformers along the route so
    something conductive falling will generate energy, this tunnel
    is not used for transport, just to collect energy.
    Obviously ...[text shortened]... out of the mass
    and converted to electricity, the mass would stop at the center,
    or close to.
    How is the mass returned to the surface? Or are you proposing a system whereby we drop our rubbish down a well and forget about it?
  3. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Mar '06 23:19
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    How is the mass returned to the surface? Or are you proposing a system whereby we drop our rubbish down a well and forget about it?
    Thats the general idea, just wanted the energy generated, its a
    huge amount! Like I said, if all the kinetic energy was absorbed by
    the generation system, it would be at a stop when the gravitational
    force was zero, at dead center. Of course, there would still be kinetic
    energy left over so it would rise to a certain point and come back down
    and rise up, generating yet another wave of energy till it came to
    a final rest.
  4. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    05 Mar '06 23:41
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Thats the general idea, just wanted the energy generated, its a
    huge amount! Like I said, if all the kinetic energy was absorbed by
    the generation system, it would be at a stop when the gravitational
    force was zero, at dead center. Of course, there would still be kinetic
    energy left over so it would rise to a certain point and come back down
    and rise up, generating yet another wave of energy till it came to
    a final rest.
    The energy is much less than if we find a way to make use the same mass via E=mc^2.

    Your example is no different, there is no point in mice imagining the benefits of putting a bell on the cat if they cannot first manage to put it on.
  5. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Mar '06 23:51
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    The energy is much less than if we find a way to make use the same mass via E=mc^2.

    Your example is no different, there is no point in mice imagining the benefits of putting a bell on the cat if they cannot first manage to put it on.
    Well duh, thanks for that flash. So far the only way E=mc^2 can be
    used ATT is with weapons which give you a lot of energy all right.
    I was just posing a hypothetical situation.
    Not to step on the soap box but I think the whole friggin planet is
    resting on its collective keester not putting bigtime money into
    the various forms of fusion and safer fission reactors. Just shows
    how commited these arseholes are to alternative energy sources.
    By bigtime I don't mean the palty 5 bil going into ITER, I mean
    BIG money, 100 bil $US or better. That would show some real
    commitment.
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's about respect
    06 Mar '06 05:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Well duh, thanks for that flash. So far the only way E=mc^2 can be
    used ATT is with weapons which give you a lot of energy all right.
    I was just posing a hypothetical situation.
    Not to step on the soap box but I think the whole friggin planet is
    resting on its collective keester not putting bigtime money into
    the various forms of fusion and safer fissi ng into ITER, I mean
    BIG money, 100 bil $US or better. That would show some real
    commitment.
    Fission reactors aren't weapons.

    The energy you're talking about harnessing is the gravitational potential energy of the object relative to the center of the Earth. So, you need the mass, the distance to the center of the Earth and the equation that tells you what the force of gravity is at a particular depth below the surface. Because this last value is variable, you'll need to do a calculus integration from the surface to the core.

    Xanthos, it's a simple physics problem. Why are you giving the guy a hard time about the practicality of it? He just wants a mathematical analysis and calculation.
  7. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 Mar '06 17:27
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Fission reactors aren't weapons.

    The energy you're talking about harnessing is the gravitational potential energy of the object relative to the center of the Earth. So, you need the mass, the distance to the center of the Earth and the equation that tells you what the force of gravity is at a particular depth below the surface. Because this last va ...[text shortened]... rd time about the practicality of it? He just wants a mathematical analysis and calculation.
    True enough! Funny, I was driving right past one yesterday, seeing
    all the water evaporating, huge cloud, was wondering how much
    water is lost to the air from one of those reactor towers.