Originally posted by DeepThought Well very possibly, but the natural numbers are a human construction, they only really became relevant to us when accountancy became neccessary to keep track of production. Natural numbers are artificial.
You are confusing theories about the thing with the thing. You don't need to invoke string theory for your argument, the Standard Model of Partic ...[text shortened]... ealing property of only working properly in four dimensions, whereas M-theory needs eleven.
What I do here is to say that "why" is not an impossible question. The "Why"s have until today been answered a numerous times. "What" is an interesting question, but "Why" is far more interesting.
We can dig deeper and deeper into the details of the axioms of Peano and String Theory and other things, but then I think we miss the very target of what we're aiming at. The target is: "Is it possible, at all, to answer the question of why gravity exists?". I think yes, you think no. And that's fine with me.
Not only me believe in an axiomatic physics, some Nobel prize winners have the same opinions. And this is my opinion and not an absolute truth. The exploration of the laws of nature progresses and the future will show the answers of "What"s and "Why"s.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung Mass bends space-time, just as a ball on a rubber sheet will cause a depression. If you roll a marble at such a ball it will tend to fall towards the mass.
That's the best explanation I've heard, but to me it sounds like using gravity to explain gravity...
It is using gravity to explain gravity. It's just an analogy. I think besides some crackpots nobody thinks that he knows what gravity is. There's a lot of hings physicists don't know: why equal charges repel, and opposite ones atract? Why two electric charges, and just one magnetic charge? What is energy?
Some will say that they know the answer and don't even know that they know it and that is very dangerous cause they fall victims of their own tautologies.
Some will say "we only want to know the how's and not the why's" but I think most of them mean that just for the moment. There are a lot of innteresting questions, and a lot of open problems and everybody that is somebody knows that. The thing is that some of them just seem to hard to crack at the present moment.
Originally posted by XanthosNZ Have you ever heard the famous phrase:
"God created the integers, all the rest is the work of Man"
?
How can the concept of a pair of things not exist?
A concept can't exist without someone to have it. A pair of things may be able to exist, but two existing as a thing in itself? You'll be telling me that time is linear progressive next 😉.
Originally posted by DeepThought A concept can't exist without someone to have it. A pair of things may be able to exist, but two existing as a thing in itself? You'll be telling me that time is linear progressive next 😉.
So a concept is like a tree falling?
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15 Mar '07 14:20
Question? if Pi came to an end or began to repeat, would this mean that mathmatics could prove a perfect circle does exist? what would each situation mean?
Originally posted by joe shmo Question? if Pi came to an end or began to repeat, would this mean that mathmatics could prove a perfect circle does exist? what would each situation mean?
what do you mean by perfect circle? And in our usual geometry, the euclidean one, Pi can't come to an end nor is digits form any kind of pattern. It was proven in the 18th or 19th century that Pi is a very strong kind of irrational number: a trascendental one.
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15 Mar '07 21:11
Originally posted by adam warlock what do you mean by perfect circle? And in our usual geometry, the euclidean one, Pi can't come to an end nor is digits form any kind of pattern. It was proven in the 18th or 19th century that Pi is a very strong kind of irrational number: a trascendental one.
If you do a circumference calculation you actually can't say what it is without any falsehood, you have to round, because as the curved line approaches meeting point it would continue to divide and decrease in length. pi is an estimation
Now if I'm totally wrong, which I probably am, if at all possible could you explain it in laymens terms. 😕
Originally posted by joe shmo If you do a circumference calculation you actually can't say what it is without any falsehood, you have to round, because as the curved line approaches meeting point it would continue to divide and decrease in length. pi is an estimation
Now if I'm totally wrong, which I probably am, if at all possible could you explain it in laymens terms. 😕
"pi is an estimation", no, pi is exact. 3.14 is an estimation. You can never write pi exact with a decimal representation.
Pi can be defined exactly by the ratio between the circumference of a perfect circle and its diameter. So pi is not an estimation, pi itself is exact.
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15 Mar '07 22:29
Originally posted by FabianFnas "pi is an estimation", no, pi is exact. 3.14 is an estimation. You can never write pi exact with a decimal representation.
Pi can be defined exactly by the ratio between the circumference of a perfect circle and its diameter. So pi is not an estimation, pi itself is exact.
so I just forgot to include that our's is an estimation of pi.
Math cannot prove that a perfect circle exists, because the number system is imperfect?
Originally posted by joe shmo so I just forgot to include that our's is an estimation of pi.
Math cannot prove that a perfect circle exists, because the number system is imperfect?
Math can prove a perfect circle exists by pointing its finger and saying -> "That sir is a perfect circle."
If we are stupid enough to define something that is later not defined, then we should consider the laws of physics as being a bad mistake and all of our buildings will falldown about... (wait for it)... now!
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16 Mar '07 00:57
Originally posted by Gastel Math can prove a perfect circle exists by pointing its finger and saying -> "That sir is a perfect circle."
If we are stupid enough to define something that is later not defined, then we should consider the laws of physics as being a bad mistake and all of our buildings will falldown about... (wait for it)... now!
Sorry for being a moron as you so eloquently put it. 😞
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16 Mar '07 01:04
No matter what you say math can not measure the circumference of a perfect circle because a perfect circle doesn't exist, atleast on all scales.
Originally posted by joe shmo so I just forgot to include that our's is an estimation of pi.
Math cannot prove that a perfect circle exists, because the number system is imperfect?
What do you mean, the number system is not perfect?
Every mathematician knows that you can't write a real number as a rational number if it not at the same time rational. Our decimal way of describing numbers is rational, nothing more.
Pi is not rational, it is real, even transcendental, so you can't even describe it polynomially.
Mathematically you can deal with perfect circles. In real life, in nature, there are nothing such as perfect circles.
Gravity.. not a poser
06 Mar '07 06:25
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