1. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    04 Jul '05 19:07
    In the position below
    a) White to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.
    b) Black to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.

  2. Joined
    30 Oct '04
    Moves
    7797
    04 Jul '05 20:44
    Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDER
    In the position below
    a) White to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.
    b) Black to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/N5p1/8/n7/1P6/P1PPPPPP/RNBQKB1R[/fen]
    Is this possible? I cannot see how White can force Black to mate them /and in five moves no less!?/ or vice versa. Perhaps this is a helpmate problem?
  3. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37204
    04 Jul '05 20:451 edit
    Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDER
    In the position below
    a) White to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.
    b) Black to play and selfmate in 5, the final move being RxN mate.

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/N5p1/8/n7/1P6/P1PPPPPP/RNBQKB1R[/fen]
    I can hardly believe this

    edit: oops I was not the first to mention this
  4. Standard memberark13
    Enola Straight
    mouse mouse mouse
    Joined
    16 Jan '05
    Moves
    12804
    04 Jul '05 20:57
    Perhaps he meant 'helpmate?'
  5. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    04 Jul '05 21:14
    Originally posted by ark13
    Perhaps he meant 'helpmate?'
    Yeah, sorry.
    I meant 'Helpmate in 5'.
  6. SubscriberMarinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    tbc
    Joined
    18 Feb '04
    Moves
    61937
    06 Jul '05 08:07
    Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDER
    Yeah, sorry.
    I meant 'Helpmate in 5'.
    Please explain the rules, i don't know what help mate means officially. 🙂
  7. Joined
    30 Oct '04
    Moves
    7797
    06 Jul '05 08:151 edit
    Originally posted by marinakatomb
    Please explain the rules, i don't know what help mate means officially. 🙂
    It's a part of heterodox problems (helpmates and selfmates). In helpmates both sides cooperate to get the Black King (usually) mated; selfmate is when White forces Black to mate them (Black does not cooperate).
    Have a look here for more details:
    http://www.chess.freegames.eu.com/problems-puzzles/helpmate.html
  8. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37204
    06 Jul '05 08:32
    Originally posted by ilywrin
    It's a part of heterodox problems (helpmates and selfmates). In helpmates both sides cooperate to get the Black King (usually) mated; selfmate is when White forces Black to mate them (Black does not cooperate).
    Have a look here for more details:
    http://www.chess.freegames.eu.com/problems-puzzles/helpmate.html
    Given that, the poster of the puzzle should make it clear which side is going to be mated in a) resp. b).
  9. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    06 Jul '05 09:431 edit
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    Given that, the poster of the puzzle should make it clear which side is going to be mated in a) resp. b).
    Although it is the convention with helpmates that Black moves first and is mated, there is no inherent reason why he should move first. However, this puzzle retains the convention that the side which moves first is mated.
  10. Joined
    30 Oct '04
    Moves
    7797
    06 Jul '05 17:19
    I'm stuck. Without the RxN condition it is easy to find several mates e.g
    1.f4 Bg7 2.e4 ~ 3.Kf2 ~ 4.Kg1 Bd4# but with it I always fall short of a move.
  11. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    08 Jul '05 10:361 edit
    Originally posted by ilywrin
    I'm stuck. Without the RxN condition it is easy to find several mates e.g
    1.f4 Bg7 2.e4 ~ 3.Kf2 ~ 4.Kg1 Bd4# but with it I always fall short of a move.
    Try 1. Nc5
  12. Joined
    30 Oct '04
    Moves
    7797
    08 Jul '05 20:14
    Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDER
    Try 1. Nc5
    I did 🙁
  13. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    11 Jul '05 17:13
    Originally posted by ilywrin
    I did 🙁
    Then try 1. Nc5 d5
  14. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
    Joined
    26 Nov '04
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    117074
    11 Jul '05 18:36
    Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDER
    Then try 1. Nc5 d5
    It's hard to believe that Black's 1st move does nothing towards getting a Rook out. This is a tough problem! (or mistaken stip?!)
  15. Joined
    29 Feb '04
    Moves
    22
    11 Jul '05 19:021 edit
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    It's hard to believe that Black's 1st move does nothing towards getting a Rook out. This is a tough problem! (or mistaken stip?!)
    Mistaken stip? 😲

    Two (or more) moves may be interchangeable.
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