This is bugging me

Anyone know if its possible to reach stalemate without either side loosing any pieces?

I think it should be possible, but it's hard to find. I keep comming up with arrangements that are almost stalemate, but theres always one legal move left that sneaks in somewhere.

Originally posted by perihelion
Anyone know if its possible to reach stalemate without either side loosing any pieces?

I think it should be possible, but it's hard to find. I keep comming up with arrangements that are almost stalemate, but theres always one legal move left that sneaks in somewhere.

Jens Hohmeister - Tena Frank, 1993
1.d4 d5
2.Qd2 e4
3.Qf4 f5
4.h3 Bb4+
5.Nd2 d6
6.Qh2 Be6
7.a4 Qh4
8.Ra3 c5
9.Rg3 f4
10.f3 Bb3
11.d5 Ba5
12.c4 e3
1/2-1/2

Even allowing for the typo and the game having played beforehand - is there any story behind any of the games played like this? Surely even as late as blacks last move there are more preferable options available (fxg3 looks like leading to mate), and whites movement looks like it'd be from a retro problem.

The note I have is that it was a common effort to arrive at the fastest stalemate with all pieces on the board.

Since it's only 12 moves, you could use a computer to check that and see if it really is the fastest way to a no loss stalemate. Pretty impressive.

I wonder if a computer was used to find that in the first place...

Here's a "lossy" stalemate:

1. e3 a5
2. Qh5 Ra6
3. Qxa5 h5
4. Qxc7 Rah6
5. h4 f6
6. Qxd7 Kf7
7. Qxb7 Qd3
8. Qxb8 Qh7
9. Qxc8 Kg6
10. Qe6 Stalemate

From a professional match. The players got into trouble for pre-arranging the game.

Originally posted by perihelion
Since it's only 12 moves, you could use a computer to check that and see if it really is the fastest way to a no loss stalemate. Pretty impressive.

I wonder if a computer was used to find that in the first place...

Sam Loyd composed both of these examples. They're both really well known (except to Bowmann, who has no idea who Sam Loyd is 😛), so I'm not surprised that tournament players have used them for pre-arranged draws.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Sam Loyd composed both of these examples. They're both really well known (except to Bowmann, who has no idea who Sam Loyd is 😛), so I'm not surprised that tournament players have used them for pre-arranged draws.

You are right, it looked familiar to me but didn't pay attention. Strange that the note about that game didn't mention it.

Sam Loyd is known for all sorts of puzzles, not just chess. The 15/16 game is probably the best known (15 little squares arranged in a 4x4 square, and you have to shift squares to put them in given sequence). Who hasn't played with that, probably more popular thanRubik's cube.

Originally posted by Mephisto2
The 15/16 game is probably the best known...

Never heard of it.

Originally posted by Bowmann
Never heard of it.

Well, in that case I have to believe that BiggDogproblem has a point.
Check this out: http://www.cut-the-knot.org/pythagoras/fifteen.shtml
and enlighten us with the name you give to this game. Or worse, that you never played it...

Originally posted by Mephisto2
Or worse, that you never played it...

Yes, I remember solving this as a five-year-old. Then I threw it away.

Originally posted by Bowmann
Yes, I remember solving this as a five-year-old. Then I threw it away.

Did you wear yellow socks then, or can't you remember that anymore?

Originally posted by Mephisto2
Did you wear yellow socks then, or can't you remember that anymore?

He did, but he never lost the habit of calling them "my white socks".