Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. Joined
    12 Aug '05
    Moves
    2866
    19 Nov '05 18:511 edit
    Anyone know if its possible to reach stalemate without either side loosing any pieces?

    I think it should be possible, but it's hard to find. I keep comming up with arrangements that are almost stalemate, but theres always one legal move left that sneaks in somewhere.
  2. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37902
    19 Nov '05 19:17
    Originally posted by perihelion
    Anyone know if its possible to reach stalemate without either side loosing any pieces?

    I think it should be possible, but it's hard to find. I keep comming up with arrangements that are almost stalemate, but theres always one legal move left that sneaks in somewhere.
    Jens Hohmeister - Tena Frank, 1993
    1.d4 d5
    2.Qd2 e4
    3.Qf4 f5
    4.h3 Bb4+
    5.Nd2 d6
    6.Qh2 Be6
    7.a4 Qh4
    8.Ra3 c5
    9.Rg3 f4
    10.f3 Bb3
    11.d5 Ba5
    12.c4 e3
    1/2-1/2

  3. Berks.
    Joined
    27 Nov '04
    Moves
    41991
    19 Nov '05 20:081 edit
    Even allowing for the typo and the game having played beforehand - is there any story behind any of the games played like this? Surely even as late as blacks last move there are more preferable options available (fxg3 looks like leading to mate), and whites movement looks like it'd be from a retro problem.
  4. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37902
    19 Nov '05 21:19
    The note I have is that it was a common effort to arrive at the fastest stalemate with all pieces on the board.
  5. Joined
    12 Aug '05
    Moves
    2866
    19 Nov '05 21:34
    Since it's only 12 moves, you could use a computer to check that and see if it really is the fastest way to a no loss stalemate. Pretty impressive.

    I wonder if a computer was used to find that in the first place...
  6. Standard memberBowmann
    Non-Subscriber
    RHP IQ
    Joined
    17 Mar '05
    Moves
    1345
    20 Nov '05 00:22
    Here's a "lossy" stalemate:

    1. e3 a5
    2. Qh5 Ra6
    3. Qxa5 h5
    4. Qxc7 Rah6
    5. h4 f6
    6. Qxd7 Kf7
    7. Qxb7 Qd3
    8. Qxb8 Qh7
    9. Qxc8 Kg6
    10. Qe6 Stalemate

    From a professional match. The players got into trouble for pre-arranging the game.
  7. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    Court Jester
    lacking discretion
    Joined
    26 Nov '04
    Moves
    124154
    20 Nov '05 00:57
    Originally posted by perihelion
    Since it's only 12 moves, you could use a computer to check that and see if it really is the fastest way to a no loss stalemate. Pretty impressive.

    I wonder if a computer was used to find that in the first place...
    Sam Loyd composed both of these examples. They're both really well known (except to Bowmann, who has no idea who Sam Loyd is 😛), so I'm not surprised that tournament players have used them for pre-arranged draws.
  8. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37902
    20 Nov '05 08:45
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    Sam Loyd composed both of these examples. They're both really well known (except to Bowmann, who has no idea who Sam Loyd is 😛), so I'm not surprised that tournament players have used them for pre-arranged draws.
    You are right, it looked familiar to me but didn't pay attention. Strange that the note about that game didn't mention it.

    Sam Loyd is known for all sorts of puzzles, not just chess. The 15/16 game is probably the best known (15 little squares arranged in a 4x4 square, and you have to shift squares to put them in given sequence). Who hasn't played with that, probably more popular thanRubik's cube.
  9. Standard memberBowmann
    Non-Subscriber
    RHP IQ
    Joined
    17 Mar '05
    Moves
    1345
    20 Nov '05 16:04
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    The 15/16 game is probably the best known...
    Never heard of it.
  10. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37902
    20 Nov '05 16:30
    Originally posted by Bowmann
    Never heard of it.
    Well, in that case I have to believe that BiggDogproblem has a point.
    Check this out: http://www.cut-the-knot.org/pythagoras/fifteen.shtml
    and enlighten us with the name you give to this game. Or worse, that you never played it...
  11. Standard memberBowmann
    Non-Subscriber
    RHP IQ
    Joined
    17 Mar '05
    Moves
    1345
    20 Nov '05 17:07
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    Or worse, that you never played it...
    Yes, I remember solving this as a five-year-old. Then I threw it away.
  12. Joined
    12 Mar '03
    Moves
    37902
    20 Nov '05 20:50
    Originally posted by Bowmann
    Yes, I remember solving this as a five-year-old. Then I threw it away.
    Did you wear yellow socks then, or can't you remember that anymore?
  13. Standard memberPalynka
    Upward Spiral
    Halfway
    Joined
    02 Aug '04
    Moves
    8702
    21 Nov '05 12:05
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    Did you wear yellow socks then, or can't you remember that anymore?
    He did, but he never lost the habit of calling them "my white socks".
Back to Top