Time travel conundrum:

Originally posted by royalchicken
Where's the conundrum? I thought this was going to be about going back in time and killing one's grandfather or something.

Just this: How could one person build an advanced society if
there were a time machine available, if you can only take a
backpack of stuff, survival gear mainly. Its clear you would not
accomplish much if you went back before there were modernish
humans, you would have to have help and you would not get help
if all you had were the equivalent of spider monkeys, so how
far back in time could you go and still finish your mission
of making an advanced society?

Originally posted by sonhouse
It could be it already happened. look at the so-called theories
about the pyramids: They were so advanced, the locals could NEVER
have been smart enough to pull it off, Therefore it proves
they had help from ALIENS, THEREFORE ALIENS EXIST!
Hows that for twisted logic. Unfortunutely exactly that story
is making the rounds. But if the locals really did n ...[text shortened]... ly than postulating aliens.
All I am saying here is how you would go about it given the chance?

CRAZY THEORY ALERT!

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
CRAZY THEORY ALERT!

Not a theory, just a condomdrum.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well someone who knew metallurgy, at least. For instance, if you
go back 100,000,000 years, no humans at all, how would one
person do anything? You can't bring back an airplane or car
so you are walking, better have good boots.

Well, you'd need humans to ever get a modern society going. If no humans, then no modern society. So we've got a rough limit here - you can't go back before Homo sapiens existed - probably. Maybe Homo erectus could be taught? Who knows.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just this: How could one person build an advanced society if
there were a time machine available, if you can only take a
backpack of stuff, survival gear mainly. Its clear you would not
accomplish much if you went back before there were modernish
humans, you would have to have help and you would not get help
if all you had were the equivalent of spid ...[text shortened]... how
far back in time could you go and still finish your mission
of making an advanced society?

The variable factor is the personal knowledge of the traveller. Would a scientist have more chance than an engineer? Would a miner be better off?

Originally posted by Alcra
The variable factor is the personal knowledge of the traveller. Would a scientist have more chance than an engineer? Would a miner be better off?

I don't think it would have to be a scientist. Someone with enough
training to, as they say, take steel wool and knit a spaceship,
would do fine. This person would have to be familiar with the history
and techniques of the past, for instance, in iron making vs bronze.
He or she would also have to know where the deposits are if
the natives don't but it would be a lot better if the natives had
some skills already. If someone went back 30,000 years, the
people of the time would be fully as intelligent as us but would have
to be brought forward thousands of years in thinking, innovation as
a concept. Stuff was painfully slow to develop back then, maybe
500 years would go by before the next development in stone
tip improvements, for instance. So in those days, innovation was
probably something to be avoided, it worked for grampa and it'l work
for me kind of thing.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I don't think it would have to be a scientist. Someone with enough
training to, as they say, take steel wool and knit a spaceship,
would do fine. This person would have to be familiar with the history
and techniques of the past, for instance, in iron making vs bronze.
He or she would also have to know where the deposits are if
the natives don't but it ...[text shortened]...
probably something to be avoided, it worked for grampa and it'l work
for me kind of thing.

Are you trying to travel back in time and create a race of super-intelligent monkeys? 'Cause brother, I can't relate.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Suppose you find yourself back in time, say 1000 years past.
It would be possible to make wire, maybe even insulators, etc,
come up with a battery, eventually making generators and motors
and stuff, having to build lathes, drills, etc.
So how far back in time could you go and still do that stuff?
It would seem if you went back 100,000 years, first off, ...[text shortened]... e where the natives at least knew about bronze
and where the deposits were. What do you think?

All I would need are my locomotives,..thats all. Nothing else.

Originally posted by TRAINS44
All I would need are my locomotives,..thats all. Nothing else.

No track to run them on? What about fuel or would you be intending
to just use them as a house?

Originally posted by sonhouse
No track to run them on? What about fuel or would you be intending
to just use them as a house?

Jeez...never thought a that.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just this: How could one person build an advanced society if
there were a time machine available, if you can only take a
backpack of stuff, survival gear mainly. Its clear you would not
accomplish much if you went back before there were modernish
humans, you would have to have help and you would not get help
if all you had were the equivalent of spid ...[text shortened]... how
far back in time could you go and still finish your mission
of making an advanced society?

Build a durable time machine and go back in time to 1000 bc with your wife and some other couples and a few teachers.
Now everyone starts having children, each time a woman is pregnant send her back in time with her child and tell her to get pregnant again as soon as possible. The teachers educate all the children.

Very soon you will have a huge amount of children, by sending all children of child bearing age back in time to either continue the process or to become an extra teacher you can instantly populate the world with an advanced civilisation.

Originally posted by PBE6
Are you trying to travel back in time and create a race of super-intelligent monkeys? 'Cause brother, I can't relate.

Not at all, There was a sci fi story with that as one of the story lines
and in that one it didn't work and that dude was an immortal, he
gave it 4,000 years and ended up getting whacked by lighting🙂
All I am saying is what is the maximum number of years you could
go back in time and devise, design, build up, by yourself with the
knowlege in your head and not much else, maybe a survival kit,
some kind of advanced society given the indigenous population.
Obviously if you go back 500,000 years ago and all you have to
work with are hominids of the time, they probably would not be smart
enough at that point in time to allow you to build anything serious
beyond some simple village surrounded by a moat or some such.
So what is the maximum number of years your proported time
machine could take you back and build up something more advanced
than the existing societies, like go back 4000 years to ancient
egypt and you might do it. But 10,000 years? 5,000? what do you
think that maximum number would be?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Not at all, There was a sci fi story with that as one of the story lines
and in that one it didn't work and that dude was an immortal, he
gave it 4,000 years and ended up getting whacked by lighting🙂
All I am saying is what is the maximum number of years you could
go back in time and devise, design, build up, by yourself with the
knowlege in your head ...[text shortened]... and you might do it. But 10,000 years? 5,000? what do you
think that maximum number would be?

What's your definition of an advanced society?

Originally posted by PBE6
What's your definition of an advanced society?

Advanced in that first it could protect itself from invaders,
second, to have a supply of renewable energy, third to have a
just society where "A blind man can meet his destiny" As the song
goes. (That song is "Good planets are hard to find" a classic
underground piece!)
Where women aren't treated like cattle, where everyone gets a
fair shake, where you wouldn't have to be producing ten times as
much this year as last to keep the place going, where arts, music,
drama, games, sports are given equal time. Where old people are
cared for, where kids are educated to the best of our ability,
where there would be no state run religion, where there will be
total separation between church and state, where everyone can
get decent medical care, where people are taught to be
responsible citizens, where its ok to be bi, gay, straight with
zero discrimination, where two fags can get married if they want with
the 'government's blessing, where those two can get the same
medical benefits, retirement benefits, etc. In short a much more
advanced place than anything else in this timeframe. Where people
aren't taught to fear the unknown but to embrace it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Advanced in that first it could protect itself from invaders,
second, to have a supply of renewable energy, third to have a
just society where "A blind man can meet his destiny" As the song
goes. (That song is "Good planets are hard to find" a classic
underground piece!)
Where women aren't treated like cattle, where everyone gets a
fair shake, where ...[text shortened]... e in this timeframe. Where people
aren't taught to fear the unknown but to embrace it.

Well, at least you aren't too demanding. 🙄 With a description like that, I'm guessing you'll have to travel sideways into the Gene Roddenberry universe. While you're at it, take Mr. Sulu with you:

http://blogs.phillyburbs.com/blog.php?p=3599&cat=10

What a world, what a world... 😕