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@sh76 saidThat doesn't matter; acquisition of territory by war is now forbidden by the UN Charter (which Israel is a signatory to).
Israel has not annexed the West Bank (except for East Jerusalem). And they took it from Jordan, who does not want it back.
Anyway, Jordan has made quite clear its position vis-a-vis the Occupied West Bank:
" since the June 1967 aggression we have believed that our actions and efforts should be directed at liberating the land and the sanctities from Israeli occupation"
"....... especially since our support for the Palestinian people's right to self-determination was clear."
" We pray to God that this step be a substantive addition to the intensifying Palestinian struggle for freedom and independence."
King Hussein of Jordan Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/88_july31.html
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@sh76 saidGee, if you're going to write fantasy, you should add some evil wizards and lots of orcs and goblins.
Viv, let me ask you a question.
Say the Sinaloa drug cartel (with or without Mexican government support; that doesn't matter), kept using more and more violent methods to get drugs into San Diego to the point where clashes broke out, and eventually a war started. The US invaded and occupied Tiujana and a sizeable tract of land to the east of it.
Then, say the Mexican gove ...[text shortened]... rime? Something that deserves the faux horror of those looking for a pretext to hate the US? Hardly.
The whole purpose of the settlement project has always been to seize Palestinian land and you're being dishonest to act otherwise.
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@sh76 saidSince 1967:
Israel has not annexed the West Bank (except for East Jerusalem). And they took it from Jordan, who does not want it back.
https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/
60% of the West Bank controlled by Israel.
In 2022:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/netanyahus-government-vows-to-expand-west-bank-settlements-annex-occupied-territory
Netanyahu’s government vows to expand West Bank settlements, annex occupied territory
In 2023:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/06/08/israel-palestine-west-bank-annexation-netanyahu-smotrich-far-right/
Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank
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@sh76 saidNo, it's not "debatable":
This is what I was trying to explain.
"bulldozing Palestinian homes and buildings" as a punitive measure for those homes that harbored terrorists is ONE thing.
"moving into annexed land" is ANOTHER thing.
They have nothing to do with each other, so please stop conflating them.
The WB settlements are on land captured from Jordan in 1967 that Jordan has no interests i ...[text shortened]... as though Israel destroys or expels Palestinian villages in order to move into them.
They don't.
"1. Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;"
"3. Calls once more upon Israel, as the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, to rescind its previous measures and to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and
materially affecting the demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, and, in particular, not to transfer parts of its own civilian population into the occupied Arab territories;
UN Security Resolution 446 22 March 1979 Adopted 12-0 with 3 abstentions
http://unscr.com/en/resolutions/446
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@congruent saidI get your point but lots of politicians, even some enlightened US and UK ones have said prayers for the gazan victims of Israel’s vengeance and even called it out for what it is
Does anyone have proof ie drone footage of how the 5 year old girl was apparently engaged in terror? Any footage of how she posed a threat?
No politicians have said thoughts and prayers or to even offer condolences.
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@congruent saidCheck out Hamas website :
Does anyone have proof ie drone footage of how the 5 year old girl was apparently engaged in terror? Any footage of how she posed a threat?
No politicians have said thoughts and prayers or to even offer condolences.
www.hamas.com
All the answers are there
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@vivify saidGeez, Viv. Pay attention. Please.
Since 1967:
https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/
60% of the West Bank controlled by Israel.
In 2022:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/netanyahus-government-vows-to-expand-west-bank-settlements-annex-occupied-territory
Netanyahu’s government vows to expand West Bank settlements, annex occupied territory
In 2023:
https:/ ...[text shortened]... st-bank-annexation-netanyahu-smotrich-far-right/
Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank
I know a quick Google search reveals a lot of chatter about annexing large parts of the West Bank.
But newsflash....
It didn't happen.
It was vowed. It was discussed. It was argued.
But it didn't happen.
I like and respect you, Viv. I really do. But you're coming into this issue with a bunch of half-baked notions that you've gotten from reading headlines and hearing 60 second news clips and cable news pundits slinging mud at each other.
It's completely understandable that you wouldn't pay that much attention to all of this before Oct. 7. After all, why would you? But if you really want to know what's going on, I suggest reading full histories.
I'd also suggest reading sources from both sides. For example, both Jewish Virtual Library and Al Jezeera have extensive series' of articles on the history of the conflict, from different viewpoints, obviously. But if you read both, you'll get a flavor for what's really going on.
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@sh76 saidI dont think it is. I think that is the genuine Hamas Website maintained by Hamas operatives. If it is not then please let me know if you have more info on it.
Is that a false flag site?
I went into the site and my antivirus and firewall disabled it. So I had to close off my firewall for a few minutes to get in.
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@sh76 saidGreat advice but many dont bother doing it.
I'd also suggest reading sources from both sides. For example, both Jewish Virtual Library and Al Jezeera have extensive series' of articles on the history of the conflict, from different viewpoints, obviously. But if you read both, you'll get a flavor for what's really going on.
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@rajk999 saidIt feels like a false flag site and fact-checker sites seem to think so as well.
I dont think it is. I think that is the genuine Hamas Website maintained by Hamas operatives. If it is not then please let me know if you have more info on it.
I went into the site and my antivirus and firewall disabled it. So I had to close off my firewall for a few minutes to get in.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/04/fact-check-did-hamas-create-a-website-boasting-about-massacring-israeli-civilians
It's very well done, though they could probably pull it off better if they were a little less over the top.
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@no1marauder saidFor a few religious zealots, perhaps. But for most "settlers," it's about relatively cheap housing within commuting distance of Jerusalem. I personally know many such "settlers" and, to a man, they moved into the settlements because they're an affordable way to be close to Jerusalem.
Gee, if you're going to write fantasy, you should add some evil wizards and lots of orcs and goblins.
The whole purpose of the settlement project has always been to seize Palestinian land and you're being dishonest to act otherwise.
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@sh76 saidmud at each other.We've discussed Israel on this site for years, long before Oct 7, before the pandemic, before Trump was elected.
It's completely understandable that you wouldn't pay that much attention to all of this before Oct. 7. After all, why would you?
Israeli citizens moving into the occupied West Bank territory is not new, correct? We can both agree this is a fact, right? Citizens of an occupying force moving into occupied land is considered a war crime.
These are not regurgitated headlines. These are facts. Do you agree?
Israel's Absentee law is used to justify taking land belonging to Palestinians who were forced out. Your earlier analogy made it seem like these were just old toys Palestinians didn't want to play with anymore that Israel just happened to scoop up. That's not the case.
When I point this out it has nothing to do with being pro or against any side; it's just a matter of facts.
Maybe your issue is with the technical definition of "annex". Whether or not Israel is technically annexing land or not doesn't change that Palestinians have been forcibly removed (including women and children), both for accusations of terrorism but also from violence by Israeli settlers.
However: if you have any valid arguments that you think are being overlooked, you can be sure I'll adopt them. You've probably seen other threads where I was on the side of Israel. Just let me know what facts, sources, etc., need to be acknowledged.
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@sh76 saidI was referring to the motivation of the Israeli government, not individual settlers.
For a few religious zealots, perhaps. But for most "settlers," it's about relatively cheap housing within commuting distance of Jerusalem. I personally know many such "settlers" and, to a man, they moved into the settlements because they're an affordable way to be close to Jerusalem.