Questions for Biblical literalists.

PettyTalk

Spirituality

12 Feb '24 18:12

KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
14 Apr '24 15:58
@pettytalk said
If it's literal, then why are there no believers performing these tasks in Jesus' name?

To know what his followers look like I use the simple criterion that PLEASES Jesus.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I HAVE LOVED YOU, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGOFX1D_jg
How do you know these things are not taking place, seriously through time these things are recorded. They can be ignored or denounced as not true, people reject out of hand the scriptures themselves, so do you think every testimony of God will be broadcast as factual? But the day-to-day life-changing work of God in the lives of believers is evident and also it is the thing we are told to look for. Loving each other as God loves us, His love is given if we respond to Him or not.

He gave to us while we were yet enemies, not that our efforts warranted or required Him to give us salvation or to give us Himself in the Holy Spirit. We can only respond to the love of God by accepting Him or rejecting Him, and when we reject the only one who is good so that we have a relationship with Him, what are we choosing instead if not the one who alone is good? Men love the darkness, because...
divegeester
Joined
16 Feb '08
Moves
116851
2
14 Apr '24 17:49
@divegeester said
Here’s the passage:

”And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Can you demonstrate how it doesn’t apply to ALL of “those who believe”?
Kelly?
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
15 Apr '24 16:32
@kellyjay said
How do you know these things are not taking place, seriously through time these things are recorded. They can be ignored or denounced as not true, people reject out of hand the scriptures themselves, so do you think every testimony of God will be broadcast as factual? But the day-to-day life-changing work of God in the lives of believers is evident and also it is the thing ...[text shortened]... im, what are we choosing instead if not the one who alone is good? Men love the darkness, because...
When a teacher instructs students to show their work in math tests, rather than just providing the final answer, it serves several educational purposes beyond simply ensuring the student knows how to arrive at the correct answer. This approach is rooted in the broader goals of mathematics education, which aim to develop students' understanding, problem-solving skills, and the ability to apply mathematical procedures.

Why not apply the same principle here, using scriptural procedures on the laying of hands by believers?

Show your work, through time. What is recorded? And how was it verified? By whom, and for whom? Jesus said: "These signs (evidence) shall follow the laying of hands by those who believe."

Surely you, as a very convinced believer, ought to be able to provide some signs of your own, by laying your hands on the truly sick, and expect a real cure. Perhaps your faith (belief) is not strong enough to put it to a real test?

Here is a video of another seller of the word, which has a different take from you on Mark 16:17,18. I copied the link at a point past his book(s) selling pitch, and it begins at his take on the laying of hands, and what is expected from it.

Does this "preacher" resonate with what you believe? Perhaps he would also be willing to show his work on how many he has cured by his own hands?

He does have a touching hand on many suckers who "partner" with him and his ministry.

YouTube?t=110
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
15 Apr '24 17:06
Today, April 15, is tax day in the USA. Taking a biblical passage with the same theme, taxes, we would ask if it's literal or symbolic? Perhaps both.

Matthew 22:16-21

16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men. 17 Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? 19 Show Me the tax money.”

So they brought Him a denarius.

20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”

21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

YouTube
KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
15 Apr '24 19:05
@pettytalk said
When a teacher instructs students to show their work in math tests, rather than just providing the final answer, it serves several educational purposes beyond simply ensuring the student knows how to arrive at the correct answer. This approach is rooted in the broader goals of mathematics education, which aim to develop students' understanding, problem-solving skills, and t ...[text shortened]... and on many suckers who "partner" with him and his ministry.

https://youtu.be/2xziU15Ytrw?t=110
You are adding to scripture to prove a point, no where does it say all will do those things. The gifts are dealt out by the Holy Spirit, not all receive each and every gift. The way remains it is by the fruit of our lives we are to know those that belong to Him, it is by the fruits of the Spirit.

So the most important question is do you belong to the Lord, is He in your Lord and Savior nothing is as important as that! That is the most important question above all others.
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
16 Apr '24 14:01
@kellyjay said
You are adding to scripture to prove a point, no where does it say all will do those things. The gifts are dealt out by the Holy Spirit, not all receive each and every gift. The way remains it is by the fruit of our lives we are to know those that belong to Him, it is by the fruits of the Spirit.

So the most important question is do you belong to the Lord, is He i ...[text shortened]... d and Savior nothing is as important as that! That is the most important question above all others.
What kind of answer is this? The "ALL" is directly implied as being applicable to all believers. Obviously, not everyone is a believer. I would say that because you cannot do any of those things Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18, you cannot be a true believer. A true believer is one whose faith is at least the size of a single mustard seed.

If we couple Mark 16:17-18 with Matthew 17:14–20, we get the picture, we get the story, and you'll get the glory, if you can do it. But you cannot, since you lack the right amount of the true faith necessary.

14 And when they came to the crowd, a man came up to him and, kneeling before him, 15 said, “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he has seizures and he suffers terribly. For often he falls into the fire, and often into the water. 16 And I brought him to your disciples, and they could not heal him.” 17 And Jesus answered, “O faithless and twisted generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him here to me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” 20 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."

Jesus cured the boy's apparent epilepsy. He emphasized to his close disciples that all it takes is true faith. And what is true faith? The faith to believe it can be done, without a doubt. Faith the size of a muster seed, without a doubt, will move mountains. Apparently, you don't have what it takes.... a muster seed worth of true faith.

You failed the biblical savvy quiz. And you obviously missed another biblical passage referenced in the Star Wars movies. Faith without doubt is the force that can overcome the physical laws of the universe.

YouTube
KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
16 Apr '24 15:47
@pettytalk said
What kind of answer is this? The "ALL" is directly implied as being applicable to all believers. Obviously, not everyone is a believer. I would say that because you cannot do any of those things Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18, you cannot be a true believer. A true believer is one whose faith is at least the size of a single mustard seed.

If we couple Mark 16:17-18 with Mat ...[text shortened]... that can overcome the physical laws of the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3-CpzZJl8w
It says those signs will follow you are saying it will happen with everyone and that is not what was said, neither does it lineup with other scripture that speaks about Spiritual gifts.
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
16 Apr '24 18:17
@kellyjay said
It says those signs will follow you are saying it will happen with everyone and that is not what was said, neither does it lineup with other scripture that speaks about Spiritual gifts.
You are not only partially ignorant in science matters, as moonbus tells you, but you are also terribly ignorant when it comes to partially understanding the Word of God.

And you still have not provided those historically documented, verified, feats of laying hands resulting of positive results of any of those miraculous signs. You did claim to have them, right?

The only verified results of those laying hands, is that they have laid their hands on the pocketbooks of those poor flocks of sheep suffering from irreversible brainwashing, by having the wool pulled over their eyes, as the saying goes.
KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
17 Apr '24 00:10
@pettytalk said
You are not only partially ignorant in science matters, as moonbus tells you, but you are also terribly ignorant when it comes to partially understanding the Word of God.

And you still have not provided those historically documented, verified, feats of laying hands resulting of positive results of any of those miraculous signs. You did claim to have them, right?

The ...[text shortened]... ering from irreversible brainwashing, by having the wool pulled over their eyes, as the saying goes.
I see you left the topic and have been reduced to speaking about me. Pity
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
17 Apr '24 02:29
@kellyjay said
I see you left the topic and have been reduced to speaking about me. Pity
How can we exclude speaking about you from the conversation, when we are discussing your lack of understanding of the Word?

If one is capable of tracing steps back on this thread, without becoming more lost than already is, perhaps a sliver of light may penetrate the dense gray matter.

It's not so much a matter of the gift of the Holy Spirit, as it is more a matter of the power of the mind. It's a matter of belief, belief without any doubt whatsoever.

It's more than clear, it's crystal clear that both in Mark and Matthew, the subject is faith and the power of faith. A faith that, if anyone believes without as much as a shadow of a doubt, nothing is impossible. No, not even moving a mountain, as Jesus said, to literally move a mountain.

The YouTube clip from Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back clearly conveys the meaning of the power of the mind, which Jesus clearly states in the two scriptural passages under discussion. The choice to misunderstand it, as one has been led to believe, requires addressing the misunderstanding, and also the person which misunderstands it, which is speaking about you. You often use this idiotic line of defense with others, whenever you are not able to provide what you have been asked to show. Not having anything to show, you manifest this line that you are being personally attacked, rather than the argument. How silly!

Any laying of hands to produce those signs has always failed to give results by those believers attempting to perform it, because they are either false believers, or believers of little faith. And that's the heart of the matter. We don't have any true Jedi masters among the living who can use the Force.

Good Night KellyJay. And may the Force be with you, someday!

YouTube
KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
17 Apr '24 02:40
@pettytalk said
How can we exclude speaking about you from the conversation, when we are discussing your lack of understanding of the Word?

If one is capable of tracing steps back on this thread, without becoming more lost than already is, perhaps a sliver of light may penetrate the dense gray matter.

It's not so much a matter of the gift of the Holy Spirit, as it is more a matter of ...[text shortened]... ght KellyJay. And may the Force be with you, someday!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcKWB1-KKI
1 Corinthians 12
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

You should use the Word when talking about it, and do not just take one passage and apply a meaning to it that doesn't line up with the rest of the Word, a systematic prayerful approach is called for.
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
17 Apr '24 17:28
@kellyjay said
1 Corinthians 12
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the ...[text shortened]... to it that doesn't line up with the rest of the Word, a systematic prayerful approach is called for.
To EVERYONE = To ALL
"All" is also used to address the set of gifts which are all the varieties listed.

The phrase "all, and everyone" refers to the comprehensive nature of the Holy Spirit's influence. It suggests that the Holy Spirit's empowerment is not limited to a select few but is available to ALL BELIEVERS. This empowerment is not uniform across individuals; instead, it is varied and individualized, reflecting the diversity of the gifts and the unique ways in which the Holy Spirit works in the lives of different believers. The passage lists a variety of spiritual gifts, such as wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning spirits, and various kinds of tongues, among others.

If what the wolf Paul is feeding the sheep is true, then please compile a list of the believers who have demonstrated the ability to manifest to others those varieties of spiritual activities. Please provide the name of the believer, the location, the date, and specify the activities that were and are still being performed.

It does not need to be an all-inclusive list. A small representative sample for each variety will be acceptable.

I prophecy that you will not be able to meet the request, and will weasel out as usual.
KellyJay
Walk your Faith
USA
Joined
24 May '04
Moves
157807
17 Apr '24 18:11
@pettytalk said
To EVERYONE = To ALL
"All" is also used to address the set of gifts which are all the varieties listed.

The phrase "all, and everyone" refers to the comprehensive nature of the Holy Spirit's influence. It suggests that the Holy Spirit's empowerment is not limited to a select few but is available to ALL BELIEVERS. This empowerment is not uniform across individuals; in ...[text shortened]... ceptable.

I prophecy that you will not be able to meet the request, and will weasel out as usual.
The Spirit gives these as He sees fit, when He sees fit, to whom He sees fit. Jesus when He walked as a man among us did only those things the Father showed Him. This is not like the force!
PettyTalk
Joined
14 Jan '19
Moves
4020
17 Apr '24 18:50
@kellyjay said
The Spirit gives these as He sees fit, when He sees fit, to whom He sees fit. Jesus when He walked as a man among us did only those things the Father showed Him. This is not like the force!
YouTube
divegeester
Joined
16 Feb '08
Moves
116851
1
18 Apr '24 05:04
@divegeester said
Here’s the passage:

”And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Can you demonstrate how it doesn’t apply to ALL of “those who believe”?
KellyJay?