09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLike I said, If you're not claiming to have had "righteousness" attributed to you, then I take it all back.
How is having righteousness attributed to one the same as actually being righteous? have you understood a single word of my text?
Originally posted by FMFIf I may butt in...this is the piece I'd like robbie to answer.
I never declared myself to have "righteousness". Do all Christians who believe in Jesus' sacrifice for them have "righteousness"?
Or roigam.
Question originally asked by FMF
Do all Christians who believe in Jesus' sacrifice for them have "righteousness"?
Originally posted by divegeesterNo Christian has righteousness, if you cannot understand the difference between having righteousness and being declared righteous then you have failed to understand anything that was said. Your question betrays the fact that you have understood little for if you had you would not have asked it.
If I may butt in...this is the piece I'd like robbie to answer.
Or roigam.
Question originally asked by FMF
[b]Do all Christians who believe in Jesus' sacrifice for them have "righteousness"?[/b]
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMaybe you are confusing two things:
No Christian has righteousness, if you cannot understand the difference between having righteousness and being declared righteous then you have failed to understand anything that was said. Your question betrays the fact that you have understood little for if you had you would not have asked it.
1. Christians who accept Jesus are washed clean by the blood of Christ and are at that point declared righteous.
No Christian is given a righteous pill or gene so the process is not automatic as some Christians claim. Free will continues to exist in the life of the convered Christian and some fall away beyond the point of forgiveness and repentance as is clear in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. The Holy Spirit is there to guide but even this is no guarantee of eternal life .. again clearly stated in the Bible.
2. Christians who accept Jesus have to emulate and follow Christ commandments, and live righteously in Christ, as John here states
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
(1Jn 2:28-3:10)
John here is addressing Christians:
- Christians who do righteousness is righteous even like Christ
- Christians who live sinfully are of the Devil.
The declaration of righteousness is therefore subject to the Christian continuing to live acceptably before God.
Originally posted by Rajk999Abraham was righteous due to his works or was he declared righteous due to his works?
Maybe you are confusing two things:
1. Christians who accept Jesus are washed clean by the blood of Christ and are at that point declared righteous.
No Christian is given a righteous pill or gene so the process is not automatic as some Christians claim. Free will continues to exist in the life of the convered Christian and some fall away beyond the poi ...[text shortened]... of righteousness is therefore subject to the Christian continuing to live acceptably before God.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJames answers that dilemma clearly :
Abraham was righteous due to his works or was he declared righteous due to his works?
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
(Jas 2:20-23)
Because of Abrahams faith, he did the works God wanted him to do, THEN he was declared righteous.. ONLY THEN. If he was dissobedient then God woould not have declared him righteous.
For the Christian obedience to Christ FIRST.
THEN will they be declared righteous.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by Rajk999he had righteousness imputed to him, he was not actually righteous.
James answers that dilemma clearly :
[i]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and i ...[text shortened]... ighteous.
For the Christian obedience to Christ FIRST.
THEN will they be declared righteous.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm asking if, according to your interpretation of applied righteousness, that ALL Christian believers are entitled through Christ's sacrifice to have access to it. Irrespective of whether they are a Jehovah's Witness member or not?
No Christian has righteousness, if you cannot understand the difference between having righteousness and being declared righteous then you have failed to understand anything that was said. Your question betrays the fact that you have understood little for if you had you would not have asked it.
09 Feb 16
3 edits
Since the Bible contains many conflicting and contradictory verses and passages, ALL Christian denominations have to pick and choose which portions of the Bible to "believe".
The following site seems to cover the topic of "righteousness" pretty well. Anyone with a true interest in the topic should read everything at the following link as well as click through and read the topics on "justification" and "infused righteousness":
http://www.theopedia.com/imputed-righteousness
Some of the highlights follow:
Imputed righteousness is a theological concept directly related to the doctrine of Justification. It is particularly prevalent in the Reformed tradition.
"Justification is that step in salvation in which God declares the believer righteous. Protestant theology has emphasized that this includes the imputation of Christ's righteousness (crediting it to the believer's "account" ), whereas Roman Catholic theology emphasizes that God justifies in accord with an infused righteousness merited by Christ and maintained by the believer's good works,"
Although all of Christianity would agree that Christ is the believer's chief representative and head before the perfect holiness of God, not all would agree that Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer. In some circles, imputed righteousness is referred to as positive imputation - where the believer receives the righteousness of Christ. It stands in contrast to negative imputation - where the sin and judgment due to the repenting sinner is imputed to Christ. Virtually all would agree with the latter, but not all will agree with the former.
The reason that the concept of "imputed righteousness" doesn't seem to make much sense is because ultimately it is nonsensical.
As opposed to that concept, the concept painted by the words of Jesus when He walked the Earth is very straightforward and can be summarized by a paraphrase of Forest Gump: "Righteousness IS as righteousness DOES".
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10 Feb 16
Righteousness has two aspects - Positional and Dispositional.
One is a matter of justification and standing.
The other is a matter of sanctification and transformation.
Here's a passage among many which nicely brings out this truth:
"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Romans 5:10)
As to the Christian's past life - he HAS been reconciled by the death of Christ.
He is in a righteous standing, upon a righteous position in which God views him as justified.
As to the Christians future - he much more will be saved in the realm of Jesus living in him. "Saved in His life, having been reconciled."
Being on the righteous standing positionally, he is now undergoing the process of dispositional saving in the sphere of a living and available Christ who is transforming his living - "saved in His life" .