The Trinity conquers Racism

Originally posted by roigam
Anyone who believes in a trinity is not a follower of Jesus Christ.
Jesus did not believe in the trinity and never taught his followers to believe it
As for John 17:21, if you think that shows a trinity you must have failed
arithematic. Jesus is speaking of his followers and says they also are in union with Jesus and the Father. That is not a trinity but ...[text shortened]... about who is God but rather how
His Father, himself, and all his followers are one in purpose.

The trinity debate is a big distraction. On one hand you have those that are literal on the other, those that are not. Nothing is accomplished in the sense that it matters.

I once had the trinity explained this way by a good friend. This is a very simplistic analogy and does not do God the justice he deserves. Either way, I am not perplexed on this and there is more to it than I am able to grasp.

H2O - God

Water = Father
Steam = Holy Spirit
Ice = Jesus

Use whatever order you want to use, all are one, all are individual with different properties or office. All are connected and it is a mystery.

Originally posted by leunammi
The trinity debate is a big distraction. On one hand you have those that are literal on the other, those that are not. Nothing is accomplished in the sense that it matters.

I once had the trinity explained this way by a good friend. This is a very simplistic analogy and does not do God the justice he deserves. Either way, I am not perplexed on this a ...[text shortened]... all are individual with different properties or office. All are connected and it is a mystery.

Does it bother you that Paul said that Jesus and God are not equal?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Does it bother you that Paul said that Jesus and God are not equal?

It seems Pauls words are divinely inspired when it suits you.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
It seems Pauls words are divinely inspired when it suits you.

Some of Pauls words are divinely inspired and some are not.

In this case Jesus never claimed equality with God. He claimed oneness, which is a different thing from equality. Paul said the very same thing that God is greater than Jesus

Originally posted by Rajk999
Some of Pauls words are divinely inspired and some are not.

In this case Jesus never claimed equality with God. He claimed oneness, which is a different thing from equality. Paul said the very same thing that God is greater than Jesus

Some of Pauls words are divinely inspired and some are not.

And you just happen to be possess the divine discernment to know which words are divinely inspired and which words aren't? You are one lucky fellow.

Or maybe the one's that suit you are divinely inspired and the one's that don't aren't.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Does it bother you that Paul said that Jesus and God are not equal?

Well, I am certainly interested in your interpretation of Paul, please provide reference.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]Some of Pauls words are divinely inspired and some are not.

And you just happen to be possess the divine discernment to know which words are divinely inspired and which words aren't? You are one lucky fellow.[/b]

It has nothing to do with luck. If you had read the Bible you would know what it says and does not say. Instead you [as I have repeatedly stated] are a victim of the church. You drift around to different churches and fall prey to their teachings which you initially accept. Then for some reason you move on to a different church and start over the process.

I can bet any money you have never read the Bible through and though. Even the New Testament , have you read it?

If you have you would know that several times that Paul stated that he did not get 'something' from Christ but is simply giving his opinion on a certain matter.

Go read your Bible and then come talk to those who know, otherwise reserve your uneducated comments.

Originally posted by leunammi
Well, I am certainly interested in your interpretation of Paul, please provide reference.

Here Paul establishes a 'pecking order':

1st God
2nd Christ
3rd Man
4th Woman

.. I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.(1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV)

The Trinitarian view is that God = Christ = holy Spirit. But this clearly is at variance with this reference from Paul.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Some of Pauls words are divinely inspired and some are not.

In this case Jesus never claimed equality with God. He claimed oneness, which is a different thing from equality. Paul said the very same thing that God is greater than Jesus

In this case Jesus never claimed equality with God.

Was it necessary for him to do so? Because he did not, does that then mean he was not?


Isaiah 7:13-15English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And he said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

Matthew 1:22-24English Standard Version (ESV)

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,

So what is Matthew telling us? A virgin shall give birth to a son and his name shall be Immanuel... 'God with Us'.


Rajk999, is the son born to the virgin... God, or 'God with Us'? Is his name Jesus? Would it be fair at this point to say 'God with Us' or Jesus is God? At least according to Matthew? If not why not?

Originally posted by Rajk999
It has nothing to do with luck. If you had read the Bible you would know what it says and does not say. Instead you [as I have repeatedly stated] are a victim of the church. You drift around to different churches and fall prey to their teachings which you initially accept. Then for some reason you move on to a different church and start over the process.

...[text shortened]... ead your Bible and then come talk to those who know, otherwise reserve your uneducated comments.

I was born into a cult which I broke away from at the age of 25. Ever since then I have not belonged to another church. The cult I belonged to was focussed on works based salvation. So maybe that's why I am sceptical of works based salvation. I know Paul gave his opinion on certain matters. Do you think the verse in the Bible that states we are not saved by works is divinely inspired or not?

Originally posted by leunammi

In this case Jesus never claimed equality with God.

Was it necessary for him to do so? Because he did not, does that then mean he was not?


[b]Isaiah 7:13-15English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And he said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself ...[text shortened]... his point to say 'God with Us' or Jesus is God? At least according to Matthew? If not why not?[/b]

As usual I take the doctrine I believe from the mouth of Jesus Christ. If he said nothing I pay it no mind because it cannot count as doctrine required for eternal life.

So its all speculation and personal interpretation. You are entitled to believe one way or the other.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I was born into a cult which I broke away from at the age of 25. Ever since then I have not belonged to another church. The cult I belonged to was focussed on works based salvation. So maybe that's why I am sceptical of works based salvation. I know Paul gave his opinion on certain matters. Do you think the verse in the Bible that states we are not saved by works is divinely inspired or not?

What is 'works based salvation'? I have never seen Jesus speak of that? If he did then please provide a quote.

And you are a liar, you did not know Paul gave his opinion at times.

Originally posted by Rajk999
As usual I take the doctrine I believe from the mouth of Jesus Christ. If he said nothing I pay it no mind because it cannot count as doctrine required for eternal life.

So its all speculation and personal interpretation. You are entitled to believe one way or the other.

How do you resolve then what is in scripture, Isaiah and Matthew vs. what you quoted from 1 Corinthians. Is there a conflict, is someone wrong, if so who?

So its all speculation and personal interpretation. You are entitled to believe one way or the other

So, does this mean you won't answer my questions from my previous post?

Originally posted by Rajk999
What is 'works based salvation'? I have never seen Jesus speak of that? If he did then please provide a quote.

And you are a liar, you did not know Paul gave his opinion at times.

If Jesus never spoke of works based salvation why do you seem to be preaching that we are saved by our works?

You don't seem to understand what divine inspiration means. 2 Tim. 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word "inspired" is θεόπνευστος theopneustos. It means God-breathed. So when you say not all Paul's words were inspired by God do you mean to say 2 Tim 3:16 is lying?

The inspiration of the Bible does not mean that every single word in the Bible is dictated by God or is from God. Instead, it means that whenever the Bible speaks in regards to history, truth, God, morality, etc., it is without error. In addition, within all of this, it will accurately record the sinful behavior of people, such as their lies. It doesn't mean that those lies were inspired from God.

In the verses where Paul said that he was speaking, not God, then it is absolutely true and correct that he was speaking and not God. But, this also means that he knew when he was speaking for God. This is no challenge to the inspiration of the word of God at all. Paul was able to distinguish between his own words and those of the Lord and, again, the Bible accurately records what was said -- including the differentiation between what was Paul's opinion and what was God's word.

And by the way trying to insult people by accusing them of lying doesn't make your opinions any more credible.

Originally posted by leunammi
How do you resolve then what is in scripture, Isaiah and Matthew vs. what you quoted from 1 Corinthians. Is there a conflict, is someone wrong, if so who?

So its all speculation and personal interpretation. You are entitled to believe one way or the other

So, does this mean you won't answer my questions from my previous post?

I dont see anything worth trying to resolve. Maybe thats the problem with Christianity and why there are a zillion variations in doctrine... nobody listens to Christ.

You said that Jesus said nothing on a particular issue. What Jesus did say a few thousand times is that
He is the SON OF GOD AND THAT GOD IS HIS FATHER. That was good enough for Him and its good enough for me.

Im not here to resolve your manmade riddles.