Originally posted by Rajk999
No .. we disagree on a lot more.

You think the way to eternal life is as follows:

1. Accept Christ with your mouth
2. God gives you his spirit
3. You then do good works.
4. You are then given eternal life.

If that is not correct then please make the correction and provide references for those points. I have provided clear references from Jesus himself for what I believe. At the very least you can do likewise.

" I have provided clear references from Jesus himself for what I believe. At the very least you can do likewise."

Okay, let me get this straight you only accept Jesus words, not anything anyone else said
that was filled with the Spirit?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I know what that verse is talking about but apparently you and your cut and paste church do not.

Paul says what the new dispensation is about a couple verses down. read it:

[i] .. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, ...[text shortened]... he Gentiles as fellowheirs with the Jews. In other words ALL PEOPLE ARE NOW UNDER JESUS CHRIST.

Uh, no not exactly. What you are describing is part of the "mystery" that was revealed.
That is not Dispensation.

Oikonomia = Dispensation
mustērion = mystery

Try again?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Uh, no not exactly. What you are describing is part of the "mystery" that was revealed.
That is not Dispensation.

Oikonomia = Dispensation
mustērion = mystery

Try again?

Try again?

Why not tell me how and why Christians are under anything different from the teachings of Jesus Christ? I think Paul is clear that he is teaching about Jesus.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If that person who you believe to the filled with the Spirit of God says something that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, WHO IS GREATER THAN ALL PROPHETS, then it is either that person is a false teacher or your interpretation is wrong.

Jesus is the sole authority. I have pointed out crystal clear passages to you from the teachings of Christ and yet you ignore them and you continue to argue.

So tell me, when you make this claim,
"Jesus is the sole authority. I have pointed out crystal clear passages to you from the teachings of Christ and yet you ignore them and you continue to argue."

Did Jesus come to just you and tell you something He didn't say to someone else, OR
did a man of God Spirit filled write something down and you accept that as from Jesus?

Originally posted by Rajk999
No .. we disagree on a lot more.

You think the way to eternal life is as follows:

1. Accept Christ with your mouth
2. God gives you his spirit
3. You then do good works.
4. You are then given eternal life.

If that is not correct then please make the correction and provide references for those points. I have provided clear references from Jesus himself for what I believe. At the very least you can do likewise.

1. Accept Christ with your mouth

Romans 10:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

2. God gives you his spirit

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22
and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Acts 15:7-9 (NKJV)
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

3. You then do good works.

Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

4. You are then given eternal life.

We are given Spirit of God as all the Scriptures above tell us, God makes His abode it us
even according to the scripture you gave earlier. The best thing in this life I could wish on
you is a closer relationship with God, after all He is the best part of being a Christian.

Any eternal process starts here, you don't have God's Spirit you don't belong to Him. So
without God's Spirit on the day of Judgment anyone without the Spirit of God will not
belong to God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
1. Accept Christ with your mouth

Romans 10:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For ...[text shortened]... ut God's Spirit on the day of Judgment anyone without the Spirit of God will not
belong to God.

Your initial response to these 4 that I said you believed:

1. Accept Christ with your mouth
2. God gives you his spirit
3. You then do good works.
4. You are then given eternal life.

was :

You don't have a clue what I believe even now, so sad!

Did you change your mind?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your initial response to these 4 that I said you believed:

1. Accept Christ with your mouth
2. God gives you his spirit
3. You then do good works.
4. You are then given eternal life.

was :

[b]You don't have a clue what I believe even now, so sad!

Did you change your mind?[/b]

No not really, but I thought I was being rude to you and you deserved better from me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No not really, but I thought I was being rude to you and you deserved better from me.

Ok .. I will respond to you later today.
RIght now Im rather intrigued at some of the statements Checkbaiter is making in the dispensation thread, and preparing a response for him.
Do you agree with him by the way?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok .. I will respond to you later today.
RIght now Im rather intrigued at some of the statements Checkbaiter is making in the dispensation thread, and preparing a response for him.
Do you agree with him by the way?

I'm sort of busy now, keeping up with my discussions is hard enough.
I have not read anything on dispensation, for me the word doesn't draw a lot of attention.
I sort of leave it alone I like I do rapture questions, if you are not ready when you die who
care when the rapture takes place. 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok .. I will respond to you later today.
RIght now Im rather intrigued at some of the statements Checkbaiter is making in the dispensation thread, and preparing a response for him.
Do you agree with him by the way?

Bump

Originally posted by KellyJay
Bump

I have read your references and I know of all the passages which you quote. However we will continue to disagree simply because you are putting eternal life FIRST. I put eternal life as the last thing that happens.

I have quoted in many other posts all the time Christ says that it is IF and man follows his commandments, THEN he will get these things .. eternal life, Gods Spirit, Life, be a disciple etc etc.

So which comes first must be obedience to the commandments of Christ and then the rest falls into place.

I go with what Jesus Christ commanded as the first thing a Christian has to do and you seem to follow the teachings of Paul.

Originally posted by KellyJay

Very Good.

1. Accept Christ with your mouth

Romans 10:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

2. God gives you his spirit

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22
and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Acts 15:7-9 (NKJV)
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

3. You then do good works.

Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

4. You are then given eternal life.

Bears reading again !
Thanks.

Don't be afraid to tell him 1 Cor. 15:45b

"the last Adam became a [ divine and eternal] life giving Spirit"

Tell em!!
I have no copyright on that verse !

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have read your references and I know of all the passages which you quote. However we will continue to disagree simply because you are putting eternal life FIRST. I put eternal life as the last thing that happens.

I have quoted in many other posts all the time Christ says that it is IF and man follows his commandments, THEN he will get these things .. et ...[text shortened]... commanded as the first thing a Christian has to do and you seem to follow the teachings of Paul.

Since God is required in your life to follow God, that is required. The timing isn't what
you are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have read your references and I know of all the passages which you quote. However we will continue to disagree simply because you are putting eternal life FIRST. I put eternal life as the last thing that happens.

I have quoted in many other posts all the time Christ says that it is IF and man follows his commandments, THEN he will get these things .. et ...[text shortened]... commanded as the first thing a Christian has to do and you seem to follow the teachings of Paul.

"I go with what Jesus Christ commanded as the first thing a Christian has to do and you seem to follow the teachings of Paul."

I will put this to you, do you think Paul was led by the Holy Spirit, if so you think that the
Holy Spirit has a different message from God than Jesus?

We know God said He would pour out His Spirit on us if you believe what Luke wrote.

Acts 2:17
“‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Do you think men led by God have a message different than Jesus, I'd say if you do
than you and Peter disagree.

ESV 2 Peter 1: 19-21 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

If you know all of the passages I quoted, than speak to them simply saying they are wrong
because of a timing issue is beyond the pale. The truth of God in our lives now is the only
thing that sets us up with God on judgment day. If you reject, dismiss, or disbelieve in God
now you'll never please Him and you will not belong to Him. I've given you ample scripture
on these points that you never address! Instead you ignore them placing yourself and
those that happen to receive your message with gladness in danger, since it allows them
to avoid God in this life to think they can earn God's favor by works without God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"I go with what Jesus Christ commanded as the first thing a Christian has to do and you seem to follow the teachings of Paul."

I will put this to you, do you think Paul was led by the Holy Spirit, if so you think that the
Holy Spirit has a different message from God than Jesus?

We know God said He would pour out His Spirit on us if you believe what L ...[text shortened]... allows them
to avoid God in this life to think they can earn God's favor by works without God.

First of all, if I have to make a mistake with my personal belief I will make it erring on the side of accepting the teachings of Christ over the teachings of Paul/Apostles rather than the other way around. However I can see no conflict between the two. The core message of Christ and that of the Apostles is the same by my interpretation.

Basically these core teachings of Jesus can be found in the teachings of the Apostles:

IF someone follows his commandments :
- THEN that person is a disciple
- THEN that person is never sees death
- THEN that person will abide in Christ's love
- THEN the Comforter is sent to that person for ever
- THEN that person is a friend of Christ
- THEN that person will enter into life
- THEN that person will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

As for being inspired or having the Holy Spirit, that to me takes second place to what Jesus said. Again I rather err accepting what Jesus said over what an inspired person says.

God in the life of the Christian, is demonstrated by how that Christian lives, not by what he says or what he believes.

I have place nobody in danger. If that were the case then those receiving the message of Christ would similarly be in danger. That makes no sense. Jesus focussed on good works. If you cannot see that then you focus on what you think is important, and let me do what I think is important .