He develops his own "intelligence" which he uses for himself primarily, while his neighbor languishes in poverty and despair.
Whereas your God is infinitely intelligent, and omnipotent, and people languish in poverty and despair.
So, by my reckoning, your God is infinitely more blameworthy.
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Why would the possibility of an infinite amount of knowledge be contrary to the concept of an omniscient God?
You believe that knowledge is not finite?
Isn't that contrary to an omniscient god?
You better rethink what you think.
This gives me a chance to make a grand claim: There is only a finite amount of possible knowledge. My basis for this statement is that the upper bound on informational entropy is given by the surface area of the region the information is in - this is Hawking's result for the entropy of a black hole. So in any causally connected region the maximum amount of information it can contain is proportional to the surface area of the region. For us this is the cosmological event horizon about 50 billion light years away. So, at least for us mortals, there is only a finite, if huge, amount of knowledge possible.
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by DeepThoughtFirstly, I agree that knowledge is finite (although increasing).
Why would the possibility of an infinite amount of knowledge be contrary to the concept of an omniscient God?
This gives me a chance to make a grand claim: There is only a finite amount of possible knowledge. My basis for this statement is that the upper bound on informational entropy is given by the surface area of the region the information is in - ...[text shortened]... ay. So, at least for us mortals, there is only a finite, if huge, amount of knowledge possible.
But if one supposes that knowledge is infinite I cannot see how
a god can know everything; there would always be something
'extra' to know.
Consider an infinite amount of marbles.
Can you make a container big enough to hold them all?
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by Rank outsiderSo now we blaim God for our own choices?
[b]He develops his own "intelligence" which he uses for himself primarily, while his neighbor languishes in poverty and despair.
Whereas your God is infinitely intelligent, and omnipotent, and people languish in poverty and despair.
So, by my reckoning, your God is infinitely more blameworthy.[/b]
You're in denial!
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Consider the set of real numbers. All real numbers are in the container we all a set. Although I like the argument I don't think it really works. God is assumed to be perfect so there is no knowledge not known to him.
Firstly, I agree that knowledge is finite (although increasing).
But if one supposes that knowledge is infinite I cannot see how
a god can know everything; there would always be something
'extra' to know.
Consider an infinite amount of marbles.
Can you make a container big enough to hold them all?
25 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwYou mean like the choices that around 100 MILLION people were killed in century 20 by despots, with nary a word from your so-called god? It wasn't MY choice to kill those people, it was the despots so why did your so-called god allow that to happen if this deity was so all loving? Apparently not loving enough to lift a rhetorical finger to help all those tortured and killed. So your god condones torture it seems. It did nothing, not even a leaflet so what other conclusion are we supposed to draw from that result?
So now we blaim God for our own choices?
You're in denial!
My guess is you just continue to ignore this kind of thing protesting only god knows what is going on.
Which will be a cop out.
25 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwFollowed by;
Given the dimensional size and scope of creation and the potentially infinite amount of knowledge yet undiscovered,
Originally posted by DeepThought
So, at least for us mortals, there is only a finite, if huge, amount of knowledge possible.
JosephW's reply.
In this life and in this realm anyway. I think!
25 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseMan o man sonhouse. Are we angry or what?
You mean like the choices that around 100 MILLION people were killed in century 20 by despots, with nary a word from your so-called god? It wasn't MY choice to kill those people, it was the despots so why did your so-called god allow that to happen if this deity was so all loving? Apparently not loving enough to lift a rhetorical finger to help all those to ...[text shortened]... gnore this kind of thing protesting only god knows what is going on.
Which will be a cop out.
It's not funny though. If there is a God so powerful, so all knowing, so infinite in wisdom, and He allows this world to continue down this obviously unjust and wicked beyond reason spiral of evil, I for one am not knowledgable enough to question such a God concerning His judgements.
But I know for a fact, given the the nature of this reality, that God will one day intervene. Justice will then be meted out.
The Bible contains the only viable, logical reason for why anything like this has even happened. Call it a myth and children's fairy tales, but that won't solve the problem or make it go away.
25 Aug 14
Originally posted by Rank outsiderIf you do "some basic reading up on evolution, you" would be reading a bunch of stupid stuff.
[b]We, according to evolution, are just animals
Evolution makes no such claims.
we have no soul
Evolution makes no such claims.
and when we die there is nothing afterward but silence.
Evolution makes no such claims.
Just how intelligent is that?
Well, since you ask, not very intelligent at all. But perhaps ...[text shortened]... you did some basic reading up on evolution, you wouldn't keep making these elementary mistakes.[/b]
25 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseIt is man that refuses to follow God's rules, so why do you blame God for despots being in power? That is about as stupid as your stupid evolution theory.
You mean like the choices that around 100 MILLION people were killed in century 20 by despots, with nary a word from your so-called god? It wasn't MY choice to kill those people, it was the despots so why did your so-called god allow that to happen if this deity was so all loving? Apparently not loving enough to lift a rhetorical finger to help all those to ...[text shortened]... gnore this kind of thing protesting only god knows what is going on.
Which will be a cop out.
Originally posted by RJHindsI don't give a rats ass who is in power for whatever reason. You just don't get it. Your so-called god completely ignored the torture and deaths of millions of people. That tells me there either is no god or your god is insane and not worth the powder to blow it up.
It is man that refuses to follow God's rules, so why do you blame God for despots being in power? That is about as stupid as your stupid evolution theory.
I'll go with the first idea.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseGod has given you the choice to believe the truth or a lie. There is no need to blaspheme God because you wish to believe differently from those that believe in the creator God of the Holy Bible.
I don't give a rats ass who is in power for whatever reason. You just don't get it. Your so-called god completely ignored the torture and deaths of millions of people. That tells me there either is no god or your god is insane and not worth the powder to blow it up.
I'll go with the first idea.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseCan we get back to debating? Your personal feelings about a nonexistent God are irrelevant.
I don't give a rats ass who is in power for whatever reason. You just don't get it. Your so-called god completely ignored the torture and deaths of millions of people. That tells me there either is no god or your god is insane and not worth the powder to blow it up.
I'll go with the first idea.
I can understand how you feel about human suffering, but blaming an entity you deny exists for it is just plain goofy. It's like saying, as some do, if I go out and kill and God doesn't stop me, it's God's fault.
It's totally illogical.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by DeepThoughtDoes God know every digit of pi? If he does, then his knowledge is infinite. If he doesn't, then he doesn't know everything.
Consider the set of real numbers. All real numbers are in the container we all a set. Although I like the argument I don't think it really works. God is assumed to be perfect so there is no knowledge not known to him.
But what does it mean to 'know'? A computer with the right program can calculated and display any requested digit of pi. But the computers storage is finite. If God actually stores all his knowledge then he would have to have an infinite sized brain just to store pi. Maybe the universe is a region of Gods brain where he stores the number pi?