26 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephw to sonhouseAs you well know, sonhouse is questioning your concept of ~ and claims about ~ your hypothetical God figure, and not "blaming an entity [he] denies exists". The "plain goofy" thing is you, time and time and time again, using retorts similar to this when you know full well it is mere sophistry on your part. 🙂
I can understand how you feel about human suffering, but blaming an entity you deny exists for it is just plain goofy.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFRank outsider
As you well know, sonhouse is questioning your concept of ~ and claims about ~ your hypothetical God figure, and not "blaming an entity [he] denies exists". The "plain goofy" thing is you, time and time and time again, using retorts similar to this when you know full well it is mere sophistry on your part. 🙂
"So, by my reckoning, your God is infinitely more blameworthy."
sonhouse
"...your god is insane and not worth the powder to blow it up."
Those are not hypothetical statements. Seriously, you think that the posts from which these quotes were taken can be considered rational debate?
I think they come closer to being vindictive and inflammatory, emotional and personal as apposed to logical and objective.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseTell me something will you sonhouse? Why did 100 million people die?
You mean like the choices that around 100 MILLION people were killed in century 20 by despots, with nary a word from your so-called god? It wasn't MY choice to kill those people, it was the despots so why did your so-called god allow that to happen if this deity was so all loving? Apparently not loving enough to lift a rhetorical finger to help all those to ...[text shortened]... gnore this kind of thing protesting only god knows what is going on.
Which will be a cop out.
You don't have to lecture me about the horrors inflicted on the innocent. Life is a nightmare for most in my reckoning.
Is evolution responsible? How can that be? One might think that evolution would tend to order, peace and harmony. Why all the hate and violence?
Can an atheist that believes in evolution give a reason why there is so much suffering going on?
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwEvolution encourages competition.
Is evolution responsible? How can that be? One might think that evolution would tend to order, peace and harmony. Why all the hate and violence?
Can an atheist that believes in evolution give a reason why there is so much suffering going on?
It depends on which suffering in particular, but yes, most suffering can be explained in terms of evolution, but you'll have to be more specific.
War, is largely a result of competition amongst humans - very well explained by evolution.
Disease is a result of the evolution of various pathogens etc.
Cancer, is well known to be a result of evolution.
Old age is well known to be a result of evolution.
Even religion and the suffering it results in can be explained in terms of evolution.
Originally posted by josephwYou refuse to get to MY issue. I said, 100 million died at the hands of despots, and all the religious crew here could say it, yeah but those despots were those disgusting atheists.
Tell me something will you sonhouse? Why did 100 million people die?
You don't have to lecture me about the horrors inflicted on the innocent. Life is a nightmare for most in my reckoning.
Is evolution responsible? How can that be? One might think that evolution would tend to order, peace and harmony. Why all the hate and violence?
Can an atheist that believes in evolution give a reason why there is so much suffering going on?
I don't give a rats ass WHAT they believed, my point is your so-called god did nothing, said nothing so you god allowed all that suffering to happen, assuming there is a bible god, which I deny.
I am just saying and of course you will answer, you can't know the mind of god, I am saying a real god would never first put out a commandment saying thou shalt not kill and then do nothing when people die at the hands of despots by the tens of millions.
Any god that doesn't say anything, do anything in the face of such incredible suffering, is not a god I want to have anything to do with.
I don't care if the deaths were caused by the pope or Stalin, there was no help from your god, who could, according to your written scripture, have just raised a rhetorical finger and stopped it all before it actually began but nothing like that happened.
Not a god I want to know. A god I would repel from, get as far away from such insanity as possible.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouseGod may have destroyed millions of people with the flood too. But God knew that those people were thinking of evil constantly and He did provide a way of escape for a few that would obey Him.
You refuse to get to MY issue. I said, 100 million died at the hands of despots, and all the religious crew here could say it, yeah but those despots were those disgusting atheists.
I don't give a rats ass WHAT they believed, my point is your so-called god did nothing, said nothing so you god allowed all that suffering to happen, assuming there is a bibl ...[text shortened]... a god I want to know. A god I would repel from, get as far away from such insanity as possible.
God does not stick His nose into the affairs of man on most occasions, but lets things play out so we can see the consequences of disobeying God.
26 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwPeace and Harmony?
One might think that evolution would tend to order, peace and harmony. Why all the hate and violence?
Evolution is normally the opposite.
(There are of course symbiotic arrangements)
Evolution is dog eat dog. The best survive. Kill or be killed.
Why on earth should Evolution favour Peace and Harmony????????????
27 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonhouse"You refuse to get to MY issue. I said, 100 million died at the hands of despots, and all the religious crew here could say it, yeah but those despots were those disgusting atheists."
You refuse to get to MY issue. I said, 100 million died at the hands of despots, and all the religious crew here could say it, yeah but those despots were those disgusting atheists.
I don't give a rats ass WHAT they believed, my point is your so-called god did nothing, said nothing so you god allowed all that suffering to happen, assuming there is a bibl ...[text shortened]... a god I want to know. A god I would repel from, get as far away from such insanity as possible.
I get your issue. You can't reconcile a world of hate and violence with the concept of a creator God because you think the two don't mix. I get that!
I don't give a "rat's ass" whether a despot is an atheist or not.
"I don't give a rats ass WHAT they believed, my point is your so-called god did nothing, said nothing so you god allowed all that suffering to happen, assuming there is a bible god, which I deny."
Take it a step further. Assuming there is a creator God, what chance in hell do you have of understanding why He "did nothing, said nothing" unless you actually had the opportunity to learn why from His own lips?
"I am just saying and of course you will answer, you can't know the mind of god, I am saying a real god would never first put out a commandment saying thou shalt not kill and then do nothing when people die at the hands of despots by the tens of millions."
If that's what you want to believe! But by the same token, you don't know the mind of God do you? So don't you think you should know for a fact why God does, or doesn't do, before you pass judgement?
"Any god that doesn't say anything, do anything in the face of such incredible suffering, is not a god I want to have anything to do with."
But you don't have anything to do with God in the first place. All you're doing is reinforcing your already made up mind. Think about it, that's what a closed mind does. I'd really like to know why you keep up this debate since it is abundantly clear you already know what you're talking about.
"I don't care if the deaths were caused by the pope or Stalin, there was no help from your god, who could, according to your written scripture, have just raised a rhetorical finger and stopped it all before it actually began but nothing like that happened."
Ok already! I get the point. It's true. God did nothing to stop it. Not yet. That's what YOU need to get. If, as you say, there is Bible God, He's not operating on your timetable, nor is He requesting your's or my council on how to deal with the universe.
"Not a god I want to know."
Did you ever know God?
"A god I would repel from, get as far away from such insanity as possible."
You've made that abundantly clear, and if God was as you have described Him, so would I. But your problem is that you are comparing apples with oranges. You've set up a self made description of a horrible God, and that's what you use to cipher out this reality, of which I think you struggle with at every turn.
Your idea of God doesn't fit the description given about God in the Bible. It only works when you twist the truth, and color it with your own bias.
Not trying to provoke you sonhouse. I appreciate your honesty, but I'm just trying to be honest too!
27 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephw
Can an atheist that believes in evolution give a reason why there is so much suffering going on?
Originally posted by twhitehead
Evolution encourages competition.
It depends on which suffering in particular, but yes, most suffering can be explained in terms of evolution, but you'll have to be more specific.
War, is largely a result of competition amongst humans - very well explained by evolution.
Disease is a result of the evolution of various pathogens etc.
Cancer, is well known to be a result of evolution.
Old age is well known to be a result of evolution.
Even religion and the suffering it results in can be explained in terms of evolution.
Originally posted by wolfgang59
Peace and Harmony?
Evolution is normally the opposite.
(There are of course symbiotic arrangements)
Evolution is dog eat dog. The best survive. Kill or be killed.
So then, evolution is the cause of all the suffering? Someone should explain that to sonhouse. He thinks some nonexistent god is responsible. 😵 😉
27 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwYou're just being goofy. When atheists talk about 'your God', josephw, they are talking about the God figure you imagine ~ they are not criticizing a God figure that they think exists. You're posting as if this is the first time you have ever discussed anything with an atheist.
Rank outsider
[b]"So, by my reckoning, your God is infinitely more blameworthy."
sonhouse
"...your god is insane and not worth the powder to blow it up."
Those are not hypothetical statements. Seriously, you think that the posts from which these quotes were taken can be considered rational debate?
I think they come closer to being vindictive and inflammatory, emotional and personal as apposed to logical and objective.[/b]
27 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwFirst you tell sonhouse that you get him, then you follow up with this:
I get your issue. You can't reconcile a world of hate and violence with the concept of a creator God because you think the two don't mix. I get that!
So then, evolution is the cause of all the suffering? Someone should explain that to sonhouse. He thinks some nonexistent god is responsible. 😵 😉
Where it is obvious that you did not get him at all. Please go back and reread his posts.
28 Aug 14
Originally posted by RJHindsWell Duh. I don't know how many times we have said life origin is a different discipline than evolution, which is what happens after life arrives.
Evolution may be a good explanation of how things mutate and devolve into a variety of species, but all evolutionists admit it does not explain how life on earth got started to begin with. That is only explained by creation.
You continue to degrade evolution because we don't know exactly how life got here.
These sciences are very young, it would be like giving a 4 year old a stern talking to because she can't do differential calculus.
Scientists are learning daily and one day will figure out how life started here but it still will have ZERO to do with evolution.
You are talking out your ass as usual.
28 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFThat's goofy FMF. I'm not imagining anything about God. God isn't an imaginary being. God exists.
You're just being goofy. When atheists talk about 'your God', josephw, they are talking about the God figure you imagine ~ they are not criticizing a God figure that they think exists. You're posting as if this is the first time you have ever discussed anything with an atheist.
You and the others are imagining that there is no God to know. What's more, they aren't "talking about my God" at all. They are being as derogatory about a God they presume doesn't exist as they can be. For all intents and purposes this isn't a debate at all. There's little objective and rational discussion, just inflammatory remarks and provocative language.
I may as well post as if I'm talking to atheists for the first time because they keep up with the same old jargon post after post, year after year.
28 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwEverybody knows you sincerely believe this. But that's no reason to post as if yesterday, today, every day, is always the first time you've ever talked to someone who thinks your God figure is imaginary.
That's goofy FMF. I'm not imagining anything about God. God isn't an imaginary being. God exists.