A trade war with China?

Originally posted by twhitehead
The US has been breaking those rules throughout history. If anything, it made most of the 'rules' to suit itself.
If the US and Europe scraped farm subsidies, then the developing world would not need foreign aid any more - and that is just one example of developed countries' unfair trade practices.

ATYSOA

Nobody's innocent in this dog-eat-dog world.

Well, very few people anyway.

Originally posted by sh76
Farm subsidies are not any more unfair than government provided healthcare.

Unfair to whom? I fail to see how healthcare has anything to do with world trade, whereas farm subsides exist almost solely to make world trade unfavorable to everyone else.

And your general claim that ending farm subsidies would eliminate the need for all foreign aid is dubious and unsupported.
Unsupported by whom? Can you estimate for us how much in total is spent on farm subsidies and how much is spent on foreign aid by the US and by the EU?
I admit I am mostly just repeating what my sister (a farmer) has told me.

In any case, fairness is not the issue.
Well then don't start the thread off by trying to make it look like China is cheating the rules or in some way being unfair.

No government has the responsibility to be fair to any other economically. The question is whether the US is justified in assessing tariffs on Chinese imports based on China's refusal to float its currency. Plainly, we are.
You cannot even talk about being 'justified' because you have already stated that fairness is not a governments responsibility there for there is no need to justify actions.

Of course, whether it's a good idea is another matter.
And that should have been your key point for discussion. So why start of with the whole 'look what unfair traders those Chinese are' quote?
Why not just say "China is getting the best of us, and although they have every right to do so, should we try and stop them?".

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
ATYSOA

Nobody's innocent in this dog-eat-dog world.

Well, very few people anyway.

Of course nobodies innocent. But the original post tried to pretend that the US is more innocent than China, which is clearly not true.

Originally posted by sh76
I agree. The Chinese don't owe it to us to float their currency. But by the same token, we don't owe it to them to allow complete and free importation of Chinese goods to the US. If we want to demand, as quid pro quo for allowing their imports without tariffs into the US, that they float their currency, we have every right to do that as well. If they refuse, we ...[text shortened]... on Chinese imports.

Such a policy would also, of course, help our manufacturing industries.

I totally agree.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Of course nobodies innocent. But the original post tried to pretend that the US is more innocent than China, which is clearly not true.

aren't we more innocent if we conform to the new world order and china takes advantage with old-world practices?

p.s. farm subsidies have a military aspect.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
if it's a war, the Chinese are winning.

til we pull out our secret weapon: the coming crash of the U.S. Dollar!

bwahahahahaha-HA!

Pfft. 😴 I am not convinced by the Chinese bogeyman conspiracy theory. They're growing like a bubble, and we all know how that works out. There are too many cultural weaknesses for them to catch up to the USA. Monoethnicity, environmental abuse, wealth disparity, one party system...their marketplace of ideas is flooded with products, but they all come from the same manufacturer...so no competition.

EDIT

Besides, what exactly have they done? Their nuclear policy and military policy haven't exactly been hawkish over the decades.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
p.s. farm subsidies have a military aspect.

Good old USA - killing is what matters, even on the farm.

Originally posted by FMF
This was pretty much the philosophy of British landlords with property in Ireland in the mid-1840s.

Producing food for export while your own people are starving is what KN is proposing the Third World do.

Originally posted by sh76
If they called in all our debt at once, they would destroy the dollar as a viable currency, crippling the US (and world) economy, but also making their notes worthless. It would be a classic example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

Of course. That is why our country allowed it to happen in the first place.

It is a symbiotic like relationship between a bunch of rich stockholders and the working class gets screwed in both countries. It is called economic slavery.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
No, they don't. The amount of health care people receive abroad is negligible. Foodstuffs can be imported and exported much more easily - besides, there is no real purpose for farm subsidies other than to get votes from farmers at the expense of billions of taxpayers' money and the blood of thousands of innocent people.

Without farm subsidies most of our farmers would not be able to make a living and there would be very few farmers as a result. This is a good example of why there is really no such thing as free trade. It does not exist.

Originally posted by sh76
I agree. The Chinese don't owe it to us to float their currency. But by the same token, we don't owe it to them to allow complete and free importation of Chinese goods to the US. If we want to demand, as quid pro quo for allowing their imports without tariffs into the US, that they float their currency, we have every right to do that as well. If they refuse, we ...[text shortened]... on Chinese imports.

Such a policy would also, of course, help our manufacturing industries.

I support protectionism as well, but we would get inflation as a result. That is why any money from tariffs should be used to to reduce the money supply if it is needed.

The only thing I worry about is that if China feels it will hurt them they might hurt us as well by calling in some of their debt.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I support protectionism as well, but we would get inflation as a result. That is why any money from tariffs should be used to to reduce the money supply if it is needed.

The only thing I worry about is that if China feels it will hurt them they might hurt us as well by calling in some of their debt.

Our debt.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Pfft. 😴 I am not convinced by the Chinese bogeyman conspiracy theory. They're growing like a bubble, and we all know how that works out. There are too many cultural weaknesses for them to catch up to the USA. Monoethnicity, environmental abuse, wealth disparity, one party system...their marketplace of ideas is flooded with products, but they all ...[text shortened]... e[/i]? Their nuclear policy and military policy haven't exactly been hawkish over the decades.

try visiting tibet.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Good old USA - killing is what matters, even on the farm.

military aspect as in ensuring the supply train, doofus. the best defense is a good offense.