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  1. 17 Feb '14 00:01
    Being South American and growing up the the US backyard, under a dictatorship largely imposed by the US govt, I did not escape the anti-american gene that led to several conflicts all over Latin America.

    Noam Chomsky showed me the reality from within when I came accross "The Culture of Terrorism" back in 1990.

    I would be interested to know your views, maybe as a manner of introducing myself.
  2. 17 Feb '14 01:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tabitha Marshall
    Being South American and growing up the the US backyard, under a dictatorship largely imposed by the US govt, I did not escape the anti-american gene that led to several conflicts all over Latin America.

    Noam Chomsky showed me the reality from within when I came accross "The Culture of Terrorism" back in 1990.

    I would be interested to know your views, maybe as a manner of introducing myself.
    Aside from other general familiarity with his works, would you consider this link to have a reasonable introduction to the work you cite?

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/Culture%20of%20Terrorism.html
  3. 18 Feb '14 22:10
    Originally posted by JS357
    Aside from other general familiarity with his works, would you consider this link to have a reasonable introduction to the work you cite?

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/Culture%20of%20Terrorism.html
    Yes.
  4. 19 Feb '14 13:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tabitha Marshall
    Being South American and growing up the the US backyard, under a dictatorship largely imposed by the US govt, I did not escape the anti-american gene that led to several conflicts all over Latin America.

    Noam Chomsky showed me the reality from within when I came accross "The Culture of Terrorism" back in 1990.

    I would be interested to know your views, maybe as a manner of introducing myself.
    hmm its very interesting, I have just finished reading, The bay of Pigs by Howard Jones in which the US tried disastrously to maintain the pretence of plausible deniability. I suspect many of these polices were simply carried on into the eighties and the epoch that you mention.

    Have you seen the film Carlas song? which to my knowledge is one of the few films at least in English (if you count Scots as English) to highlight the complexities of the situation as it was in Nicaragua.
  5. 20 Feb '14 04:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    hmm its very interesting, I have just finished reading, The bay of Pigs by Howard Jones in which the US tried disastrously to maintain the pretence of plausible deniability. I suspect many of these polices were simply carried on into the eighties and the epoch that you mention.

    Have you seen the film Carlas song? which to my knowledge is one of ...[text shortened]... u count Scots as English) to highlight the complexities of the situation as it was in Nicaragua.
    Yes, I saw Carla's Song when it came out. Very good and hard like most of Ken Loach's movies.

    Back to Chomsky, what impresses me in his writings is his honest view of world politics and more precisely, the US role and power.

    We all know that the US still is the world's most powerful nation, for how long, only history will tell but seeing how fast mondialasation takes place, we can already see that power is currently quite dodgy.

    But back in the 50's up till the 2000's, the US was the central decision maker of what had to be South America. No longer so and I respect Chomsky for acknowledging that, in what concerns me personally being Brazilian.
  6. 20 Feb '14 14:17
    Originally posted by Tabitha Marshall
    Yes, I saw Carla's Song when it came out. Very good and hard like most of Ken Loach's movies.

    Back to Chomsky, what impresses me in his writings is his honest view of world politics and more precisely, the US role and power.

    We all know that the US still is the world's most powerful nation, for how long, only history will tell but seeing how ...[text shortened]... and I respect Chomsky for acknowledging that, in what concerns me personally being Brazilian.
    They have a horrendous record of deposing foreign dignitaries through covert operations and assassination.
  7. 20 Feb '14 15:47
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    They have a horrendous record of deposing foreign dignitaries through covert operations and assassination.
    Any discussion should consider, but not dwell on, the Monroe Doctrine and what led up to it.

    The Monroe Doctrine was a policy of the United States introduced on December 2, 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to colonize land or interfere with states in North or South America would be viewed as acts of aggression, requiring U.S. intervention.[1] At the same time, the doctrine noted that the United States would neither interfere with existing European colonies nor meddle in the internal concerns of European countries. The Doctrine was issued at a time when nearly all Latin American colonies of Spain and Portugal had achieved or were at the point of gaining independence from the Portuguese and Spanish Empires; Peru consolidated their independence in 1824, and Bolivia would become independent in 1825, leaving only Cuba and Puerto Rico under Spanish rule. The United States, working in agreement with Britain, wanted to guarantee that no European power would move in."

    Wikipedia

    This made the USA and Britain in effect the protectors of the newly independent countries of the "New World." The rest was predictable.
  8. 20 Feb '14 17:05
    Originally posted by JS357
    Any discussion should consider, but not dwell on, the Monroe Doctrine and what led up to it.

    The Monroe Doctrine was a policy of the United States introduced on December 2, 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to colonize land or interfere with states in North or South America would be viewed as acts of aggression, requiring U.S. interve ...[text shortened]... the protectors of the newly independent countries of the "New World." The rest was predictable.
    Sure but its one thing to set up a protectorate and another to orchestrate assassination and mass murder of civilians, either directly or indirectly and how defensible is the Munro doctrine in dealing against non European intervention but ideologies such as Socialism and Marxism which were almost entirely internal movements?

    US KILL LISTS AND ASSASSINATION IN LATIN AMERICA

    The U.S. Army’s School of Americas (SOA), started in 1946, trained mass murderers and orchestrated coups in Peru, Panama, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Mexico. The SOA trained more than 61,000 Latin American officers implicated in widespread slaughter of civilian populations across Latin America. From 1966-1976 the SOA trained hundreds of Latin American officers in Phoenix-derived methods. Between 1989-1991 the SOA issued almost 700 copies of Project X handbooks to at least ten Latin American countries, including Bolivia, Colombia, Peru, Venezuela, Guatemala, and Honduras. In 2001, SOA was renamed Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC), but peace activists know it as School of Assassins. [26]

    The CIA trained assassination groups such as Halcones in Mexico, the Mano Blanca in Guatemala, and the Escuadron de la Muerte in Brazil. In South America, in 1970-79, Operation Condor, the code-name for collection, exchange and storage of intelligence, was established among intelligence services in South America to eradicate Marxist activities. Operation Condor promoted joint operations including assassination against targets in member countries. In Central America, the CIA-supported death toll under the Reagan presidency alone exceeded 150,000. The CIA set up Ansesal and other networks of terror in El Salvador, Guatemala (Ansegat) and pre-Sandinista Nicaragua (Ansenic).

    Honduran death squads were active through the 1980s, the most infamous of which was Battalion 3–16, which assassinated hundreds of people, including teachers, politicians, and union leaders. Battalion 316 received substantial CIA support and training, and at least 19 members graduated from the School of the Americas.

    In Colombia, about 20,000 people were killed since 1986 and much of U.S. aid for counternarcotics was diverted to what Amnesty International labeled “one of the worst killing fields.” The US State Department also supported the Colombian army in creating a database of subversives, terrorists and drug dealers.

    In Bolivia, Amnesty International reported that from 1966-68 between 3,000 and 8,000 people were killed by death squads. The CIA supplied names of U.S. and other foreign missionaries and progressive priests.

    In Ecuador, the CIA maintained what was called the lynx list, aka the subversive control watch list of the most important left-wing activists to arrest. In Uruguay. Every CIA station maintained a subversive control watch list of most important left wing activists. From 1970-72 the CIA helped set up the Department of Information and Intelligence (DII), which served as a cover for death squads, and also co-ordinated meetings between Brazilian and Uruguayan death squads.

    In Nicaragua, the US provided illegal funds to the Contras, and Marine intelligence helped maintain a list of civilians marked for assassination when Contra forces entered the country.

    In Chile, 1970-73, CIA-created unions organized CIA-financed strikes leading to Allende’s overthrow and subsequent suicide. By late 1971 the CIA was involved in the preparation of lists of nearly 20,000 middle-level leaders of people’s organizations, scheduled to be assassinated after the Pinochet coup.

    In Haiti, U.S. officials with CIA backgrounds in Phoenix-like program activities coordinated with the Ton-Ton Macoute, “Baby Doc” Duvalier’s private death squad, responsible for killing at least 3,000 people.

    For over thirty years the US military and the CIA helped organize, train, and fund death squad activity in El Salvador. From 1980-93, at least 63,000 Salvadoran civilians were killed, mostly by the government directly supported by the U.S. The CIA routinely supplied ANSESAL, the security forces, and the general staff with electronic, photographic, and personal surveillance of suspected dissidents and Salvadorans abroad who were later assassinated by death squads. US militray involvement in El Salvador allowed “the lessons learned in Vietnam to be put into practice … assisting an allied country in counterinsurgency operations.” [27]

    In Guatemala, as early as 1954, the U.S. Ambassador, after the CIA-orchestrated overthrow of the Arbenz government, gave to the new Armas government lists of radical opponents to be assassinated. Years later, throughout Guatemala’s 36-year civil war, Washington continuously to supported the Guatemalan military’s excesses against civilians, which killed 200,000 people.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31925.htm
  9. 20 Feb '14 17:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Sure but its one thing to set up a protectorate and another to orchestrate assassination and mass murder of civilians, either directly or indirectly and how defensible is the Munro doctrine in dealing against non European intervention but ideologies such as Socialism and Marxism which were almost entirely internal movements?

    US KILL LISTS AND ASSA ...[text shortened]... lians, which killed 200,000 people.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31925.htm
    I'm not pleading for the defense. I take what you say here as basically accurate. I would have to do a lot more research to say more. There is no doubt that being an informed citizen brings disillusionment. If anything, the Monroe doctrine was a thinly veiled manifesto of empire. Your chronology could start much earlier.
  10. 20 Feb '14 17:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I'm not pleading for the defense. I take what you say here as basically accurate. I would have to do a lot more research to say more. There is no doubt that being an informed citizen brings disillusionment. If anything, the Monroe doctrine was a thinly veiled manifesto of empire. Your chronology could start much earlier.
    Sure thing, political bias like religious bias is interesting in itself, to what extent and why is the salient point of interest, please feel free to contribute for I myself have much to learn. At present I am reading a wonderful book, 'The men who lost America', which is essentially a portrait of the British leadership leading up to and during the colonies movement for independence looking at the forces which drove their respective bias.
  11. 20 Feb '14 18:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Sure thing, political bias like religious bias is interesting in itself, to what extent and why is the salient point of interest, please feel free to contribute for I myself have much to learn. At present I am reading a wonderful book, 'The men who lost America', which is essentially a portrait of the British leadership leading up to and during the colonies movement for independence looking at the forces which drove their respective bias.
    Interesting review at:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/20/book-review-the-men-who-lost-america/

    I spent several days at Williamsburg, Virginia learning about the Siege of Yorktown including a tour of the site.

    I fear I drift from Tabitha's aim.
  12. 20 Feb '14 19:48 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    Interesting review at:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/20/book-review-the-men-who-lost-america/

    I spent several days at Williamsburg, Virginia learning about the Siege of Yorktown including a tour of the site.

    I fear I drift from Tabitha's aim.
    Its a truly excellent read, I have only one criticism of the New York times article, the economist Adam Smith was not English, he was in fact Scottish, he attended Glasgow University

    Oliver North and Iran Contra in 1:50 seconds

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QikSorPak6M
  13. 20 Feb '14 22:52
    Originally posted by JS357
    Interesting review at:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/20/book-review-the-men-who-lost-america/

    I spent several days at Williamsburg, Virginia learning about the Siege of Yorktown including a tour of the site.

    I fear I drift from Tabitha's aim.
    No doubt a very interesting read. I know nothing about that part of history.

    For those interested in South American history, the classic Open Veins of Latin America, by Eduardo Galeano, is a must.
  14. 21 Feb '14 09:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tabitha Marshall
    No doubt a very interesting read. I know nothing about that part of history.

    For those interested in South American history, the classic Open Veins of Latin America, by Eduardo Galeano, is a must.
    Ok I gotta that book. Only real south American history I have studied is Mexican, but I always wanted to go to Peru and Argentina, they are meant to be pure awesome. Many thanks for the recommendation
  15. 21 Feb '14 21:52
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Sure but its one thing to set up a protectorate and another to orchestrate assassination and mass murder of civilians, either directly or indirectly and how defensible is the Munro doctrine in dealing against non European intervention but ideologies such as Socialism and Marxism which were almost entirely internal movements?

    US KILL LISTS AND ASSA ...[text shortened]... lians, which killed 200,000 people.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31925.htm
    What is particularly chilling about this record is the nature of the dictators and pistoleros the US supported.