06 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioIt bothers me, Nemesio. But it has happened before, during the Civil War and also during WWII. Perhaps at other times also. No doubt it has happened at times when it never became public. But, like you, it definitely bothers me. And I'm sure it also bothers millions of other Americans, or will eventually.
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
06 Oct 06
Originally posted by DelmerDo you think it was the right thing to do during the Civil War? During WWII?
It bothers me, Nemesio. But it has happened before, during the Civil War and also during WWII. Perhaps at other times also. No doubt it has happened at times when it never became public. But, like you, it definitely bothers me. And I'm sure it also bothers millions of other Americans, or will eventually.
Do you think it's right now?
Nemesio
06 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioI really don't have an answer for that except for the fact that I personally don't like politicians or their intrusions into my life.
Do you think it was the right thing to do during the Civil War? During WWII?
Do you think it's right now?
Nemesio
06 Oct 06
Originally posted by DelmerI'm not trying to pick on you, but don't you think ambivalence on this
I really don't have an answer for that except for the fact that I personally don't like politicians or their intrusions into my life.
issue is akin to tacit support? That is, right now you, Delmer, YOU
could be held for no reason whatsoever for as long as the government
wanted. Or your mother, or your children, without even providing proof
(which means, there doesn't have to be any).
During and after WWII, we know the government abused its powers
on a large scale by its own admission. Things are even more opened-
ended today than they were then, with a poorly defined concept of
'terrorist' (what does one have to do or think in order to be one, anyway?).
Given that politicians in both parties are capable of tremendous personal
scandal (as we have discovered repeatedly over the past two weeks),
what makes you or anyone feel 'safe' that these scummy politicians
are wielding what is basically absolute power.
It's been a long time since a politician had power and willingly relinquished
it for the good of society, or at least I can't think of a case in recent
or even distant memory.
Nemesio
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioIn my opinion, I think the right wing bottom feeding scum sucking politicians running the country right now were jumping for joy on 9-11.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but don't you think ambivalence on this
issue is akin to tacit support? That is, right now you, Delmer, YOU
could be held for no reason whatsoever for as long as the government
wanted. Or your mother, or your children, without even providing proof
(which means, there doesn't have to be any).
During and after WWI ...[text shortened]... iety, or at least I can't think of a case in recent
or even distant memory.
Nemesio
They knew instantly they had a grip on the country like hadn't happened since WWII, the cold war and the civil war like you said.
9-11 played right into their zombie bloodsucking selfcongratulatory
religious right jelly brained hands.
Originally posted by NemesioI think you will find that you only have rights in so far as the state has an interest in enforcing those rights on the books and you will find that the state tends to enforce those rights only to the extent that they have a will to do so. I don't think this has ever changed, rather, I think that you are simply witnessing it happening to you or those around you for the first time.
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioThe frog never jumps out of the pot.
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by Nemesiohmmm ... vhy are you concerned? ...
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioNo one seemed to mind it when the CA state government outlawed smoking in CA. I don't think you are allowed even to smoke in your own home. The government was only looking to control behavior, which means you control the population.
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
So why should it bother people now when the government can hold you for any reason? This is just another way for the government to control behavior of the citizens.
But to answer your question, this has scared me now for about 4 months now. Too bad that apathy will destroy our country. :'(
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by NemesioAs security increases, freedom decreases, what in math is called an inverse relationship. Think back to the U.S.S.R.
Habeas Corpus can be suspended for on-soil, American citizens.
This means that the road is being paved to having a police state,
wherein anyone can be held for any amount of time for any reason.
Doesn't this bother someone other than me?
Nemesio
07 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by slappy115Ok first off, California didn't outlaw smoking. They outlawed public smoking. And since I have asthma and frequently deal with rude smokers, no I didn't mind. (Not saying all smokers are rude, just a lot of the ones I encounter are.)
No one seemed to mind it when the CA state government outlawed smoking in CA. I don't think you are allowed even to smoke in your own home. The government was only looking to control behavior, which means you control the population.
So why should it bother people now when the government can hold you for any reason? This is just another way for the g ...[text shortened]... has scared me now for about 4 months now. Too bad that apathy will destroy our country. :'(
Secondly, the change to the law listed here http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:4:./temp/~c1099RgwHN:e116515: only apply to non-citizens accused of involvement in terrorisim. They can't remove habeas corpus for citizens because it's a constitutionally protected right. Yes unconstitutional laws have been passed before but removing a constitutionally protected right, especially one like habeas corpus, would actually cause the first real rebellion against this nations government since Shay's more than 200 years ago.
07 Oct 06
how long it will take until they apply this to americans? al-quaida had american agents(and perhaps still has) implanted all over the states. you don't have to be a foreigner to be a terrorist.
being able to detain a person without making accusations simply because that person might be a terrorist is true terror, much worst than suicide bombers.