Originally posted by StarValleyWyWhat?????
Mokko,
You are doing just fine. Unless and until your cat complains just take it for what it is. It is an animal with some intelligence. Just as a three year old human. And it is not "conscious". Just like that same human. It couldn't know if it was "sad" or "happy" because that requires a cognition of time passage and self awareness and morta ...[text shortened]... pet is extremely lucky. That you should provide its every need. That doesn't happen in nature.
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Originally posted by DelmerHi Del,
What?????
What what?
I am just pointing out that an "unconscious" being like a cat or an infant human react using "instinctive" behaviors, not "reasoned and conscious" action.
Not? It would be really pressing it to say that an intelligent but unconscious being could be "Sad". In need or in pain or hungry -- yes. "Sad". No, I think.
Originally posted by mokkoLOL! Haven't seen the anti-KFC thing but I think by now I've seen everything else Pamela has to offer.
Never even thought of a cage outside for him. Never said I was the brightest lighbulb in the pack! My yard is so small I could probably just staple some wire across the top of the fence 😉
But I sneak smokes now and again out there in the yard 😞
So I guess that might not work 😕
Will actually look into that though and see if I can't rig something up f ...[text shortened]... t know where you live but it's only good place to get fried chicken in a crunch around here.
Good luck with building an outside run. Cats aren't so difficult to keep enclosed but keep an eye on him for awhile and make sure there aren't any places where the cat might get it's head caught etc.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyGood grief, SVW, haven't you ever had anything other than mollusks for pets?
Hi Del,
What what?
I am just pointing out that an "unconscious" being like a cat or an infant human react using "instinctive" behaviors, not "reasoned and conscious" action.
Not? It would be really pressing it to say that an intelligent but unconscious being could be "Sad". In need or in pain or hungry -- yes. "Sad". No, I think.
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Originally posted by DelmerYea. I have my dog Abu Zabu Doggie, aka, "Middle Yard Terrorist" and my daughters dog, Kayah and our callico cat "TC" which is short for "The Cat". And a tank of fish and an iguana that I loathe and a couple of Hampsters.
Good grief, SVW, haven't you ever had anything other than mollusks for pets?
The theory I put forth can be easily and completely shot down. Just tell me how you were feeling on your second birthday. Were you sad or happy? Or were you conscious enough to remember it?
Tell me how that day went for you and I'll admit that unconscious beings feel in a conscious way.
Originally posted by StarValleyWySVW, I can't even tell you how I felt on my 66th birthday. But I can tell you that in my universe you are utterly, absolutely, completely in error concerning the animals I know, have known and will know.
Yea. I have my dog Abu Zabu Doggie, aka, "Middle Yard Terrorist" and my daughters dog, Kayah and our callico cat "TC" which is short for "The Cat". And a tank of fish and an iguana that I loathe and a couple of Hampsters.
The theory I put forth can be easily and completely shot down. Just tell me how you were feeling on your second birthday. We ...[text shortened]... ll me how that day went for you and I'll admit that unconscious beings feel in a conscious way.
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Originally posted by DelmerWhy? Because they inflame your parenting hormones with cuddly smiles?
SVW, I can't even tell you how I felt on my 66th birthday. But I can tell you that in my universe you are utterly, absolutely, completely in error concerning the animals I know, have known and will know.
That's what it is to be a walking gland. All feelings and little thought required when "love" gets involved.
Don't take me wrong. I love Zabu with a passion. She is twice the dog that your dog is!!! <grin>
But she isn't conscious. She is intelligent, but would be hard pressed to explain "yesterday, today and tomorrow".
Besides. Does a being have to be conscious to deserve life and respect? Hell no. They are lovable just because they are so innocent.
Question. Why do you suppose people are more "torn up" at the death of a pet than of a human?
Answer. Because the animal is a totally "innocent" and the human feels "responsible" and must inevitably "fail" to protect that innocent being.
But conscious thought is just that. It isn't anything that a cat has.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyLOL! I've never had parenting hormones. Again, in my universe you are wrong and that's it, period. But even in your universe, SVW, how could you as a "conscious" entity father a totally "innocent" knowing that you would inevitably "fail" to protect that innocent being? Did you do it during an "unconscious" moment?
Why? Because they inflame your parenting hormones with cuddly smiles?
That's what it is to be a walking gland. All feelings and little thought required when "love" gets involved.
Don't take me wrong. I love Zabu with a passion. She is twice the dog that your dog is!!! <grin>
But she isn't conscious. She is intelligent, but would be hard pr ...[text shortened]... t that innocent being.
But conscious thought is just that. It isn't anything that a cat has.
Originally posted by DelmerNo. I did it in the full knowledge that I would have to face the death of my little dog. Just because we can't protect the innocent from mortality isn't a reason to forego.
LOL! I've never had parenting hormones. Again, in my universe you are wrong and that's it, period. But even in your universe, SVW, how could you as a "conscious" entity father a totally "innocent" knowing that you would inevitably "fail" to protect that innocent being? Did you do it during an "unconscious" moment?
The day you watch your wife give birth is a contradiction. One feels joy unbounded. Yet upon reflection, one realizes that you just issued a death sentence to an innocent being.
Adopting a pet is different in the respect that we get to see our kids grow independent and lose their need for us. Our pets are dependent upon us forever. They are always babies in need of us.
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Originally posted by StarValleyWyHave you and your children really lost your need for each other? Of course we can't protect any living thing from mortality but I guess what kept me from fathering children was the idea of starting a sequence of events that might end with that child frightened, confused and slobbering in a nursing home 90 years in the future, and me long gone and unable to help. That and the fact that it really would have ticked me off to have to buy clothes and food for a child instead of CDs and books for me.
No. I did it in the full knowledge that I would have to face the death of my little dog. Just because we can't protect the innocent from mortality isn't a reason to forego.
The day you watch your wife give birth is a contradiction ...[text shortened]... e dependent upon us forever. They are always babies in need of us.
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Originally posted by DelmerYes. We no longer "need" each other. My children have their own life-mates now. We are still deeply affectionate and are good friends. But the day when they grow up and find their own mate... then we are just left with each other (my wife and I) as "all important". That is the way it should be. The bible has it right. "And the woman shall leave her parents and cleave to her husband".
Have you and your children really lost your need for each other? Of course we can't protect any living thing from mortality but I guess what kept me from fathering children was the idea of starting a sequence of events that might end with t ...[text shortened]... buy clothes and food for a child instead of CDs and books for me.
That's the way of life. And one can't view grown children as "children". They have earned the right... just as I did -- to be independent. To make ones OWN way in the world is the only reward it offers us.
I love my kids. They love me. But we love as co-equal adults. Zabu doggie and I love each other as parent and baby. I won't pretend to tell you which of us is which. 😵😕
Originally posted by StarValleyWyOkay, SVW. I'm going to play chess now. Have a good evening. Kiss your animals for me (yes, even the iguana and the fish and the hamsters) and pet your wife. Tell her I think she is one courageous woman.
Yes. We no longer "need" each other. My children have their own life-mates now. We are still deeply affectionate and are good friends. But the day when they grow up and find their own mate... then we are just left with each other (my wife and I) as "all important". That is the way it should be. The bible has it right. "And the woman shall leave her ...[text shortened]... nd I love each other as parent and baby. I won't pretend to tell you which of us is which. 😵😕
Originally posted by Delmergrin...
Okay, SVW. I'm going to play chess now. Have a good evening. Kiss your animals for me (yes, even the iguana and the fish and the hamsters) and pet your wife. Tell her I think she is one courageous woman.
I ain't gunna even touch that evil reptile.
errr.... the iguana... not my wife.... errr.
I'll tell her that "Del says you are brave."
I can almost guess that she will respond... "What?"
Any bets?
Win one for the gipper. Or get a grip errrr -- whatever.
Originally posted by StarValleyWySee SVW here is the evidence that the cat has been complaining already.
Mokko,
You are doing just fine. Unless and until your cat complains just take it for what it is. It is an animal with some intelligence. Just as a three year old human. And it is not "conscious". Just like that same human. It couldn't know if it was "sad" or "happy" because that requires a cognition of time passage and self awareness and morta ...[text shortened]... pet is extremely lucky. That you should provide its every need. That doesn't happen in nature.
Originally posted by mokko
...................... He sneeks out the door if given the chance but never gets far. Luckily the outside confuses him. Now that summer is here he's begun meowing at the screendoor begging to go out. Do animals need to be outside?...................
Better let him out Mokko or he might one day retaliate in the style of Fat Freddys Cat & sh*t in your sterio headphones.
http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/anderson-vid.asp?c=956sa
Just in case anyone was interested.
Can't for the life of me remember what was going through my head when I got this stupid cat. It has done nothing but cost me money and grief. I would gladly have a dozen more children than one more animal. At least they will eventually learn to use the toilet, help clean up around the house and earn their own spending money. This cat will never do anything but cost me money and continue to clog up my vacuum cleaner.
Starting to think of letting him out, roam free, and mabey (if I'm lucky) he will never come back. Seeing as he isn't a concious being anyway this should not be considered tramatic or cruel.
That, or just wait him out, I mean he has to pass away sometime doesn't he? Mabey I could marry the cat off? Oh wait he's not a she so that might ot work. Damn it. Stupid cat. 😕