Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    02 Sep '18 06:42
    May (that’s the prime minister, not the month, nor indeed the begin of a polite question) says a 2nd referendum on Brexit would be a betrayel of democracy... and trust (the dots are from the BBC, not me).

    Considering the 1st referendum was supposed to be non-binding and consultational and the outcome of it was basically - 50/50 split, can a 2nd referendum (on the proposed final deal) be considered any form of betrayel?

    Obviously I don’t think the government should have put forward the 1st referendum in the first place. It was idiotically formulated and fuelled by moronity.
    I would have posed: should the UK have a referendum on a Brexit in 10 years time?

    That way the consultation would have been had, and half the “pro-Brexit” voters would have died before the actual referendum took place (but seriously giving people a decent time to think about their stupidity).
    So... I’m not really the person to objectively answer my own question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45385421
  2. Germany
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    02 Sep '18 06:53
    The first referendum was a betrayal of ordinary Britons, who will pay the price for cynical political games played for short-term gain.
  3. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
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    02 Sep '18 07:19
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    May (that’s the prime minister, not the month, nor indeed the begin of a polite question) says a 2nd referendum on Brexit would be a betrayel of democracy... and trust (the dots are from the BBC, not me).

    Considering the 1st referendum was supposed to be non-binding and consultational and the outcome of it was basically - 50/50 split, can a 2nd referen ...[text shortened]... e person to objectively answer my own question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45385421
    That's really very funny, the thing about May, oh yes, hahha...hahahaha, giggle, snigger.

    The poms gave the middle finger to a very expensive un-elected parasitical buratcracy, anyone for Brexit was portrayed as, I think you've guessed it, the favourite unimaginative go to insult for D64, KN and all the rest...

    R A C I S T

    So nothing new then.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    02 Sep '18 07:52
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    That's really very funny, the thing about May, oh yes, hahha...hahahaha, giggle, snigger.

    The poms gave the middle finger to a very expensive un-elected parasitical buratcracy, anyone for Brexit was portrayed as, I think you've guessed it, the favourite unimaginative go to insult for D64, KN and all the rest...

    R A C I S T

    So nothing new then.
    I think you're trying way too hard to fit everyone under your little comedy umbrella.

    Calling Brexiteers "racist" is a bit of a stretch.

    Nationalists, maybe, stupid, maybe, shooting-themselves-in-the-foot, definitely, but racist? Not so much.
  5. Germany
    Joined
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    02 Sep '18 08:53
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    That's really very funny, the thing about May, oh yes, hahha...hahahaha, giggle, snigger.

    The poms gave the middle finger to a very expensive un-elected parasitical buratcracy, anyone for Brexit was portrayed as, I think you've guessed it, the favourite unimaginative go to insult for D64, KN and all the rest...

    R A C I S T

    So nothing new then.
    The European Parliament (EP) is the directly elected parliamentary institution of the European Union (EU). Together with the Council of the European Union (the Council) and the European Commission, it exercises the legislative function of the EU. The Parliament is composed of 751 members, who represent the second-largest democratic electorate in the world (after the Parliament of India) and the largest trans-national democratic electorate in the world (375 million eligible voters in 2009).[2][3][4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament
  6. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
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    02 Sep '18 09:20
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The European Parliament (EP) is the directly elected parliamentary institution of the European Union (EU). Together with the Council of the European Union (the Council) and the European Commission, it exercises the legislative function of the EU. The Parliament is composed of 751 members, who represent the second-largest democratic electorate in the wo ...[text shortened]... million eligible voters in 2009).[2][3][4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament
    Burearats elected by other bureaurats.

    KN Logic 🙄
  7. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
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    02 Sep '18 09:31
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The first referendum was a betrayal of ordinary Britons, who will pay the price for cynical political games played for short-term gain.
    The first referendum was a liberation, not a betrayal. These 'ordinary Britons' you speak of were given a 'vote' a 'choice.' Yes, there were exaggerations on both sides, but it was the British people themselves who voted for Brexit and it is now the government's duty to ensure this democratic decision by the people is implemented. Had the majority voted for us to remain in the EU there would be no talk now of a 2nd referendum.

    And I think you have the 'short-term gain' thing backward. A vote for Brexit was a vote for 'short-term pain' (not gain). It is 'long-term gain' that fueled Brexit. Like moving on from a bad marriage, separation is never going to be easy at first, but the future offers exciting new opportunities.
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
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    02 Sep '18 09:47
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    I think you're trying way too hard to fit everyone under your little comedy umbrella.

    Calling Brexiteers "racist" is a bit of a stretch.

    Nationalists, maybe, stupid, maybe, shooting-themselves-in-the-foot, definitely, but racist? Not so much.
    'By issuing the Declaration of Independence, adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, the 13 American colonies severed their political connections to Great Britain. The Declaration summarized the colonists’ motivations for seeking independence.' (https://history.state.gov/milestones/1776-1783/declaration).


    Did you guys 'stupidly shoot yourself in the foot' for seeking independence and the new opportunities and freedoms it facilitated? Or was it an act of courageous endeavor?
  9. Stargazing
    Joined
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    02 Sep '18 09:50
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    May (that’s the prime minister, not the month, nor indeed the begin of a polite question) says a 2nd referendum on Brexit would be a betrayel of democracy... and trust (the dots are from the BBC, not me).

    Considering the 1st referendum was supposed to be non-binding and consultational and the outcome of it was basically - 50/50 split, can a 2nd referen ...[text shortened]... e person to objectively answer my own question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45385421
    I think the way forward is it maintain a barrage of abuse and name calling of those people who live in different country to you and who hold different opinions, this way your arguments carry more weight and you appear more intelligent.
  10. Stargazing
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    02 Sep '18 09:552 edits
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    I think you're trying way too hard to fit everyone under your little comedy umbrella.

    Calling Brexiteers "racist" is a bit of a stretch.

    Nationalists, maybe, stupid, maybe, shooting-themselves-in-the-foot, definitely, but racist? Not so much.
    Have you not been reading this forum?

    I’ve been regularly directly called racist, bigoted, moronic, an idiot, unintelligent, uneducated and a many other labels of abuse by those who I presume see themselves as intelligent, informed educated and politically right-on and in the vortex of humanity’s best interests.

    I’d vote brexit today, tomorrow and everyday for the rest of my life to get the political and economic independence the UK needs and I couldn’t give toss what the abusive knuckleheads in this forum think.
  11. Stargazing
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    02 Sep '18 09:57
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The first referendum was a betrayal of ordinary Britons, who will pay the price for cynical political games played for short-term gain.
    What do you mean by “ordinary Britons” ?
  12. Stargazing
    Joined
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    02 Sep '18 09:592 edits
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The European Parliament (EP) is the directly elected parliamentary institution of the European Union (EU). Together with the Council of the European Union (the Council) and the European Commission, it exercises the legislative function of the EU. The Parliament is composed of 751 members, who represent the second-largest democratic electorate in the wo ...[text shortened]... million eligible voters in 2009).[2][3][4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament
    Well firstly more than half of my fellow UK voters remain completely unconvinced, and secondly there are several other countries who if given the free vote would vote to leave. France being the first as was acknowledged by Macron earlier this summer.

    But will he give the French people the vote to choose what they desire, the hell he will. He’s on his way to head the EU and nothing is going to stop him.
  13. Stargazing
    Joined
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    02 Sep '18 10:03
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    The first referendum was a liberation, not a betrayal. These 'ordinary Britons' you speak of were given a 'vote' a 'choice.' Yes, there were exaggerations on both sides, but it was the British people themselves who voted for Brexit and it is now the government's duty to ensure this democratic decision by the people is implemented. Had the majority v ...[text shortened]... separation is never going to be easy at first, but the future offers exciting new opportunities.
    Too much common sense for KN’s rose-tinted no more borders, countries or national identities ideological farm.
  14. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    02 Sep '18 10:12
    This debate isn’t actually about the merits of brexit, it’s whether a 2nd referendum would be a betrayal of democracy.
  15. Stargazing
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    02 Sep '18 10:202 edits
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    This debate isn’t actually about the merits of brexit, it’s whether a 2nd referendum would be a betrayal of democracy.
    On general principle no or course not, but that is NOT what was pitched at the first referendum which was a choice to remain or leave and the UK chose to leave. Voting again on the same topic is a betrayal of democracy. Voting on terms is not, so my answer is, it depends on what the 2nd referendum is for.

    Personally I think all the rhetoric is driven by a “remain” panic as they realise Brexit is actually going to happen, and hats off to T May for standing firm.
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