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Day of respect..

Day of respect..

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p

Graceland.

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The death tolls from the Tsunami are now at 45 000, believed to grow to 57 000. Many have been affected all over the world.

May I suggest we try at RHP for one day to respect those that died for one day (Tue 28th Dec), by keeping them in our minds as we post here at RHP.

All I'm asking is to put differences aside for today.

pc

Nemesio
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Originally posted by pcaspian
The death tolls from the Tsunami are now at 45 000, believed to grow to 57 000. Many have been affected all over the world.

May I suggest we try at RHP for one day to respect those that died for one day (Tue 28th Dec), by keeping them in our minds as we post here at RHP.

All I'm asking is to put differences aside for today.

pc
Today is also the Feast of the Holy Innocents.

Nemesio

S
BentnevolentDictater

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I sometimes think we have our priorities all screwed up.

50,000 dead is terrirble and don't get me wrong. But lets take this act of nature and compare it to acts of Rabid Chimps.

I will use the most conservative estimates. I will not include "revolutions" and "wars". These are just the raw "killing" for ideologies that we can track.

I found this site a long time ago and have researched it myself, reading many of the sources listed. I find it to be reliable.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

Lets add up the toll of "wanton" death.

Stalin 10,000,000
Mao 40,000,000
Pol Pot 1,500,000

I won't waste time here for all the minor commies. Research them yourselves if you are interested.

50,000,000 (50 million) killed wantonly. No wars. No reason except that they had Bill Clintonitis... "They Could" so they "Did".

Now... how many years to average? Let's just do from 1920 to present?

85 years let's say.

That is 588,235 people per year. Every year for 85 years.

And this number about doubles when one adds in the "minor" commies. Then quadruples if we add in "wars" and "famines" and death caused by "righteous revolutions" for the "cause". THESE ARE CIVILIAN DEATHS FOLKS. JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE IN ASIA WHO DIED FROM NATURE ON CHRISTMAS. THESE ARE NOT MILITARY DEATHS. JUST PLAIN PEOPLE.

So which is worse? 50,000 or a hundred thousand dead from tsunami's every 50 years? Or 600,000 dead every year from commies?

Do the math?

So I would just suggest that we all get a perspective. We can't stop or affect nature. We can fight Stalin worshiping fools like Saddam. But it requires a realistic world view. Not conditioning by silly media squirrels.


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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
I sometimes think we have our priorities all screwed up.

50,000 dead is terrirble and don't get me wrong. But lets take this act of nature and compare it to acts of Rabid Chimps.

I will use the most conservative estimates. I will not include "revolutions" and "wars". These are just the raw "killing" for ideologies that we can track.

I fo ...[text shortened]... Saddam. But it requires a realistic world view. Not conditioning by silly media squirrels.


What in the hell does Stalin have to do with Saddam? You know with that one sentence I lost every last shred of respect I had for you.

I also don't get your point. The horrific loss of life of these dictators is remembered in various ways. By your logic should America just "stop crying and suck it up" about 9/11 because only a few thousand died?

Death is bad. No matter the circumstances and numbers.

W
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odds of serious injury from employer negligence or toxic environment (excluding tobacco)
~1:40
odds of becoming victim of violent crime
~1:1000
odds of being victimized by natural disaster or terrorism
~1:1000000

These disasters call for our compassion because so many die at once; but so many more die alone every day because of factors that we can prevent--let's do something about that.

S
BentnevolentDictater

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Originally posted by XanthosNZ
What in the hell does Stalin have to do with Saddam? You know with that one sentence I lost every last shred of respect I had for you.

I also don't get your point. The horrific loss of life of these dictators is remembered in various ...[text shortened]... d died?

Death is bad. No matter the circumstances and numbers.
Study Saddam and read a few of his historians. People who spent time with him. HE WORSHIPED STALIN AND BASED HIS GOVERNMENT AND RULE ON STALIN.

Perspective and responsibility. We all must learn what we can do to defeat "human caused" tragedy. We can do nothing about nature. We can fight bad people.

An excellent example of what we all can read to learn is at:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Study Saddam and read a few of his historians. People who spent time with him. HE WORSHIPED STALIN AND BASED HIS GOVERNMENT AND RULE ON STALIN.

Perspective and responsibility. We all must learn what we can do to defeat "human caused" tragedy. We can do nothing about nature. We can fight bad people.

An excellent example of what we all can read to ...[text shortened]... learn is at:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

I never said we can't fight bad people. But is it wrong to mourn the loss of 50 000 people just because they died in a natural disaster rather than a manmade one?

S
BentnevolentDictater

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Originally posted by XanthosNZ
I never said we can't fight bad people. But is it wrong to mourn the loss of 50 000 people just because they died in a natural disaster rather than a manmade one?
Sigh.

No. I specifically asked that you think before spouting off. You chose not to. The first thing I said was that it is a terrirble thing and don't take this the wrong way.

My ONLY point is that we need a perspective. Things we CAN affect that kill people (like wanton dictators)... we need to act. That seems self evident. Not very controversial to me.

If we can kill a killer and don't... then we are just reliving history with no clue that we can actually "not be victims". We can act. Against "human killers". Nature is beyond our control. Obviously.

W
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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
My ONLY point is that we need a perspective. Things we CAN affect that kill people (like wanton dictators)... we need to act. That seems self evident. Not very controversial to me.
Well said, and also the point of my post.

K
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er ...
But I still want to remember the people that were killed in S Asia ... so I shall.

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Originally posted by KneverKnight
er ...
But I still want to remember the people that were killed in S Asia ... so I shall.
Well said and the point of my posts.

W
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Originally posted by pcaspian
All I'm asking is to put differences aside for today.
Every time the bear enters into a truce with the rabbit, something happens to the rabbit. It's an old theme in folklore, and ever new.

We should always mourn the dead; but we must also protect the living. The greatest need in these days of sensationalist news reporting is perceiving the everyday, preventable maladies that injure one at a time, and usually in isolation. They don't make the news, but they are victims nonetheless. Indeed, most victims are of this sort.

How many homeless will die of exposure today in the urban areas of the so-called civilized world?

p

Graceland.

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Originally posted by StarValleyWy

So I would just suggest that we all get a perspective. We can't stop or affect nature. We can fight Stalin worshiping fools like Saddam. But it requires a realistic world view. Not conditioning by silly media squirrels.
I realise that star.

Yesterday I felt the same as you, today a friend and his wife are still missing.

I just felt that with increasing death tolls, essentially meaningless differences could be put aside for one day.

pc

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BentnevolentDictater

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Originally posted by pcaspian
I realise that star.

Yesterday I felt the same as you, today a friend and his wife are still missing.

I just felt that with increasing death tolls, essentially meaningless differences could be put aside for one day.

pc

Sorry. I hope it turns out for your friend. And his family and you. And for the hundred thousand still unknowns. I am sorry if I have offended. Forgive me?

p

Graceland.

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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Sorry. I hope it turns out for your friend. And his family and you. And for the hundred thousand still unknowns. I am sorry if I have offended. Forgive me?

Nothing to forgive Star.

I despise the media, I despise the fact that something like this can be sensationalised under the muse of sincerity. Images of children being washed away and drowning serve absolutely no purpose. I also despise the fact that it takes something like this to be a tradegy when children are starving around the world, while others complain because they didn't get the right coloured Ipods for Christmas.

The death toll has escalated from 11 000 to 57 000 and no doubdt will be even greater. As it affects so many countries, it hits home to so many different places.

I just want us to be thankfull for what we have, for those around us, and think of those that lost entire communities in one day, instead of moving on with our discussions as if nothing is happening.

cheers
pc

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