Originally posted by amanniontalk about your elitist attitudes ....
I guess I have the view that we should punish but also rehabilitate.
For someone who is truly homicidal and sociopathic then locking them away seems to me to be perfectly reasonable.
But for murderers who's motivation is emotional or economic, why not try to rehabilitate. Let's have a go at actually getting something back from these people - that is, le ...[text shortened]... States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
Nice group to be associated with.
Originally posted by royalchickenif it costs far more to try and execute, that's per the will of anti-DP lobby, not the DP lobby, so don't cry about it.
Second, it's well-known that trying and executing someone costs taxpayers far more money than trying and imprisoning them does. The execution process could be made cheaper, but at the cost of a less reliable procedure for appeals, making innocents even more likely to be executed.
There are also significant moral arguments against executing actual gu ...[text shortened]... u're interested. The two above reasons are in themselves sufficient for ending this practice.
Originally posted by amannionIt's not murder, aman, it's a case of public justice. When do we get up in arms about authoritarian dictatorships using the death penalty as a punishment for murder?
It's murder, pure and simple. Actually worse than that, it's state sponsored murder.
Which we get all up in arms about when it's some authoritarian dictatorship ...
Originally posted by zeeblebotNo, it's per the will of those who would not have innocent people executed. Would you prefer executions to be carried out quickly and on the cheap, with no appeals process or mechanisms for ensuring that the person being executed is in fact a criminal?
if it costs far more to try and execute, that's per the will of anti-DP lobby, not the DP lobby, so don't cry about it.
Originally posted by royalchickenI'm sure no-one wants that, but what is the average time spent in jail before execution?
No, it's per the will of those who would not have innocent people executed.
Isn't it many many years? This is the reason for high cost for death penalty (incarceration costs + lawyers fees mostly I would guess).
Surely even a very thorough trial and appeal should not stretch out for so long.
Originally posted by royalchickenyes i would, esp. re tying effort expended to the degree of certainty, and eliminating the randomness of a jury trial and judicial discretion in sentencing. the legal industry is an industry, no mistake. everywhere else you see forward progress, but not here.
No, it's per the will of those who would not have innocent people executed. Would you prefer executions to be carried out quickly and on the cheap, with no appeals process or mechanisms for ensuring that the person being executed is in fact a criminal?
(p.s. what are you doing on sasquatch's couch? is it a paisley?)
Originally posted by VargIn America the average time on death row before execution appeals run out is something like 15 years, unless you're in Texas, where it's under 20 minutes.
I'm sure no-one wants that, but what is the average time spent in jail before execution?
Isn't it many many years? This is the reason for high cost for death penalty (incarceration costs + lawyers fees mostly I would guess).
Surely even a very thorough trial and appeal should not stretch out for so long.
Originally posted by amannionWhen you dont have food or shelter, it certainly is.
It's not a luxury. For a society to progress in any way it's a central part of what they must do - develop ways to rehabilitate.
You dont seem to be a well travelled or knowledgeable person. Where are you from? Have you been anywhere except your hometown ?
Originally posted by zeeblebotEliminating the randomness of a jury trial? I agree that I would not fancy putting my life in the hands of most randomly selected groups of twelve people (especially after reading a lot of RHP posts), but what's the immediate alternative?
yes i would, esp. re tying effort expended to the degree of certainty, and eliminating the randomness of a jury trial and judicial discretion in sentencing. the legal industry is an industry, no mistake. everywhere else you see forward progress, but not here.
(p.s. what are you doing on sasquatch's couch? is it a paisley?)
I'm on sasquatch's couch being psychoanalysed.
Originally posted by amannionHave you ever met a rehabilitated sociopath? No, you couldn't have, because they don't change, ever. All you can do is kill them after they get caught so they don't get a chance to do it again. That's the best option.
That's idiotic.
Many prisoners become rehabilitated after their period of incarceration is over. Admittedly it could be done better, but how when there are so many like you who'd rather just lock them up and throw away the keys?
Originally posted by General PutzerNo, the best option is to work towards a society where sociopathic behaviour is not encouraged. That is, a society where we respect people, where we fight poverty, and where everyone has a chance to succeed.
Have you ever met a rehabilitated sociopath? No, you couldn't have, because they don't change, ever. All you can do is kill them after they get caught so they don't get a chance to do it again. That's the best option.
Killing people doesn't really make such a society possible now, does it?