Democracy is dead!

Originally posted by Bad wolf
It is worth noting that this treaty is wholly camparable to The Nice Treaty and The Maastricht Treaty, these weren't ratified by a referendum either.

So these treaties were undemocratic too, that doesn't make the new one any more democratic.

Originally posted by princeoforange
No it is not!! How can you say that? It defies all logic! However "democratic" the wording of the treaty may be, the fact remains that it was deliberately introduced autocratically, and therefore has no democratic legitimacy or basis. Thus, the newest part of the EU's evolving constitution is intrinsically undemocratic, which means that in terms of democracy, the EU has taken another step backwards.

I can say the EU is more democratic than it was because the power of the parliament has been increased and the commission decreased. The EU parliament is directly elected by the people of the member States. Quite simple really.

Originally posted by princeoforange
So these treaties were undemocratic too, that doesn't make the new one any more democratic.

Actually I think Maastricht went to referendum in Ireland. We had to change our constitution about something. It is perfectly democratic for us to allow our democratically elected leaders to work within their mandate. The treaty, as pointed out already, improves the "democratic quotient" so to speak of the EU, with a more powerful (directly elected) parliament, which ain't an easy thing to bring about when you've a population of 500 or 550 million. Just because the governments are doing the job we've given them, you call them undemocratic?