Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membershavixmir
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    08 Mar '19 04:241 edit
    @philokalia said
    So, if a vegan strongly believes that meat is murder and refers to a butcher as a murderer, is he also a "liar?"

    I see it as someone who is wrong, but they are clearly not lying or "bearing false witness."

    They merely have a different perspective than me.

    Words have meaning, David.
    Yes. They are lying.
    They’ve been told umpteen times that a butcher is not a murderer, neither is an abortion performing doctor.

    A butcher kills an animal. A doctor kills a foetus. A soldier kills a soldier.

    Murder, on the other hand, is a definition in law. It’s not a factual act.
    So in one country killing A can be legal and in another country that same killing (of A) can be murder. Or murder in the second degree. Or justice.
  2. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    08 Mar '19 11:18
    @philokalia said
    Also, David...

    If I call you a liar because you don't think that abortion performing doctors are murderers...

    And I am right that abortion is murder...

    Am I right to be calling you a liar?

    ... So, should I actually be calling you a liar right now, because I think you are wrong..?
    Lol, What is this, solve the philokalia riddle? Get a grip loser, you are the liar no matter what you think. The LAW, Science, biology, and most importantly to me, the Bible; all say that you are lying and that you're a liar who is falsely accusing people of murder and killing live babies. You cannot change the facts. You're a liar riddle boy.
  3. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Mar '19 11:27
    I am actually trying to look at this from a philosophical perspective, David.

    Let's see what some dictionaries say a "liar" is...

    Most just say "One who tells lies," but we already see some caveats coming out:

    n. One who lies; a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation.


    https://www.wordnik.com/words/liar

    Meaning, someone who is only saying something that they know to be untrue. So a person who is mistaken is not a liar, right?

    Now, what is a lie?

    n. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
    n. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
    v. To give false information intentionally.
    v. To convey a false image or impression.

    (American Heritage Dictionary)

    n. A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive.intransitive v. To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive; to say or do that which is intended to deceive another, when he a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation.

    (Collaborative International English Dictionary)

    n. A false statement made with the purpose of deceiving; an intentional untruth; a falsehood; the utterance by speech or act of that which is false, with intent to mislead or delude.
    n. That which is intended or serves to deceive or mislead; anything designed or adapted to produce false conclusions or expectations: as, this epitaph is a lie.


    (Century Dictionary)

    Etc.
    https://www.wordnik.com/words/lie

    Indeed, it seems to be quite common place to suggest thatmy definition of what a lie is is entirely valid.

    Indeed, it seems to be the norm, and certainly to be reflective of what any very serious usage of the word would mean.
  4. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    08 Mar '19 11:34
    @philokalia said
    I am actually trying to look at this from a philosophical perspective, David.

    Let's see what some dictionaries say a "liar" is...

    Most just say "One who tells lies," but we already see some caveats coming out:

    n. One who lies; a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation.


    https://www.wordnik.com/wor ...[text shortened]... rm,[/i] and certainly to be reflective of what any very serious usage of the word would mean.
    One who lies; a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation.
    Yep! That's what the Bible says also. That would be you. LOL, So riddle us how it is not you? lol
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Mar '19 11:41
    You are using a low threshold definition. The lowest of them all.

    The bulk of the definitions imply that the person has to believe it is untrue and seeking to deceive.

    ...

    And what would your less exact, more broad definition give us?

    I could just sit here and call you a liar, over and over and over again, because I believe that you are "lying" by saying that abortion performing doctors are not murderers.

    It's left with two ignorami calling each other "liar" over and over and over again because they have a disagreement stemming off of how they perceive reality.

    Fortunately, I will not engage in that.
  6. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    08 Mar '19 12:04
    @duchess64 said
    "Official statistics estimate the number of clandestine abortions at
    345,000 every year, despite the threat of a four-year jail term.
    Women who suffer from complications after clandestine abortions
    are often too scared to seek medical help."
    --quoted in my original post

    Argentina's government has not eliminated abortions.
    It has just driven it underground and made it much less safe for women and girls.
    At last, something to agree upon. 🙂
  7. Standard membershavixmir
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    08 Mar '19 12:26
    @philokalia said
    I am actually trying to look at this from a philosophical perspective, David.

    Let's see what some dictionaries say a "liar" is...

    Most just say "One who tells lies," but we already see some caveats coming out:

    n. One who lies; a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation.


    https://www.wordnik.com/wor ...[text shortened]... rm,[/i] and certainly to be reflective of what any very serious usage of the word would mean.
    The problem is you can’t hide behind ignorance in this issue any more.
    You’ve been explained what the difference is between killing and murder.

    So if you still repeat this untruth, then you are willingly spreading a falsehood. And that is lying.
  8. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Mar '19 23:11
    @shavixmir said
    The problem is you can’t hide behind ignorance in this issue any more.
    You’ve been explained what the difference is between killing and murder.

    So if you still repeat this untruth, then you are willingly spreading a falsehood. And that is lying.
    Something tells me that if you said abortion is KILLING BABIES you'd also be called a liar by King David.
  9. Zugzwang
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    08 Mar '19 23:25
    @shavixmir said
    The problem is you can’t hide behind ignorance in this issue any more.
    You’ve been explained what the difference is between killing and murder.

    So if you still repeat this untruth, then you are willingly spreading a falsehood. And that is lying.
    (Shavixmir replied to Philokalia.)

    Obviously (except perhaps to Philokalia and other 'pro-life' fanatics), when abortion
    is legal, it *cannot* be murder because murder is a form of *unlawful* killing.
  10. Zugzwang
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    08 Mar '19 23:53
    Shortly before International Women's Day (March 8), US Senator Martha McSally
    revealed that, while serving in the US military, she was raped by a superior officer.
    She did not report it because she was afraid of being unfairly treated by the system.

    If she had been impregnated by rape and chosen to have an abortion, then would
    her political career *in Arizona* be over if she admitted that she had an abortion?
  11. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    09 Mar '19 00:20
    @philokalia said
    Something tells me that if you said abortion is KILLING BABIES you'd also be called a liar by King David.
    Yep! 🙂
  12. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    09 Mar '19 04:09
    @duchess64 said
    (Shavixmir replied to Philokalia.)

    Obviously (except perhaps to Philokalia and other 'pro-life' fanatics), when abortion
    is legal, it *cannot* be murder because murder is a form of *unlawful* killing.
    No law is above God's way.
  13. Zugzwang
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    09 Mar '19 04:17
    @philokalia said
    No law is above God's way.
    Would Philokalia concede that he wants the USA to become a Christian theocracy?
  14. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    09 Mar '19 05:15
    @duchess64 said
    Would Philokalia concede that he wants the USA to become a Christian theocracy?
    Define theocracy.

    If you are using it with the same rigor liberals use the word "Fascist," maybe. Idk. Who knows what you might mean by that.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Mar '19 07:001 edit
    @philokalia said
    Define theocracy.

    If you are using it with the same rigor liberals use the word "Fascist," maybe. Idk. Who knows what you might mean by that.
    You do know there is a book called a dictionary, right? And in this book they have definitions of words you don't know, right? Look it up.
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