How subsidies can be investments
Subsidies function like investments when they are designed to produce long-term returns, such as:
•Economic growth (e.g., subsidies for R&D, clean energy, infrastructure)
•Positive spillovers the market underprovides (education, public health, basic research)
•Cost reductions over time (learning-by-doing, economies of scale)
•Future fiscal returns (higher tax revenues, lower future spending)
In these cases, a subsidy is similar to an investment because it sacrifices resources now to generate lasting benefits later, even if the “return” isn’t captured directly by the government.
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@AverageJoe1 saidIts funny that Trump's administration is defunding each of the bullet point items of productive government subsidies on your list.
How subsidies can be investments
Subsidies function like investments when they are designed to produce long-term returns, such as:
•Economic growth (e.g., subsidies for R&D, clean energy, infrastructure)
•Positive spillovers the market underprovides (education, public health, basic research)
•Cost reductions over time (learning-by-doing, economies of scale)
...[text shortened]... to generate lasting benefits later, even if the “return” isn’t captured directly by the government.
As investments in R&D and education, yes of course subsidies are hugely beneficial to economies. The NIH is on your list, with a projected cut of 40% this year, in favor of subsidies for farmers who have been receiving the same non-productive subsidies for 40+ years in a row, with zero innovation, growth, or attempt to return profit. The whole industry is government-dependent.
@wildgrass saidThe list, derived from Chat, is a basic concept derived after much research and discussion by legislators. It , like everything, is always the best that they can do, and like everything is never perfect. You liberals speak of perfection a lot which does not exist. The worst example is marauder, wondering why Trump did not end the war in 24 hours. Life ain’t perfect.
Its funny that Trump's administration is defunding each of the bullet point items of productive government subsidies on your list.
As investments in R&D, yes of course subsidies are hugely beneficial to economies. The NIH is on your list, with a projected cut of 40% this year, in favor of subsidies for farmers who have been receiving the same non-productive subsidies fo ...[text shortened]... th zero innovation, growth, or attempt to return profit. The whole industry is government-dependent.
So you are correct, daily government activities do not follow that list exactly every day. Factors all over the world affect those simple subsidies, which thus necessarily change every day. A summer of drought would have an effect on existing subsidies.
So we take the list with a grain of salt, but it is all we can go by, and the best way we can describe it. When a certain subsidy may have been created, it was with a certain fixed amount in mind, but inflation may have eroded the source of such funding, which would have changed that particular amount.
Liberals need to start seeing the real world and not being Pollyannas. Did you know that the government a year or so ago wanted to start giving money to people who had unpaid tuition’s? Yep, something every day. And they are an unusual crowd. On the one hand, they have always said that everyone should be created equally, but on the other hand, they think that it was OK to select a fortunate few to receive that money when others received no money. Are you of that persuasion wild grass?
@AverageJoe1 saidWhy did you post the list of productive government subsidies that yield future returns on investment if you were not prepared to defend the Trump administrations decisions to defund all of it? Legislators passed the Big Beautiful Bill along party lines, supported only by Republicans - written and endorsed by Trump - which removed funding for basic research, clean energy, and education. (see your own bulleted list)
The list, derived from Chat, is a basic concept derived after much research and discussion by legislators. It , like everything, is always the best that they can do, and like everything is never perfect. You liberals speak of perfection a lot which does not exist. The worst example is marauder, wondering why Trump did not end the war in 24 hours. Life ain’t perfect.
...[text shortened]... ate few to receive that money when others received no money. Are you of that persuasion wild grass?
You are not prepared to defend the fact that our country has abandoned subsidies for all of the items on your list?
@AverageJoe1 saidAmazing. We might make a Democrat out of you yet.
How subsidies can be investments
Subsidies function like investments when they are designed to produce long-term returns, such as:
•Economic growth (e.g., subsidies for R&D, clean energy, infrastructure)
•Positive spillovers the market underprovides (education, public health, basic research)
•Cost reductions over time (learning-by-doing, economies of scale)
...[text shortened]... to generate lasting benefits later, even if the “return” isn’t captured directly by the government.
@AThousandYoung saidlol. It's on the record now. AverageJoe supports government investments in clean energy and education.
Amazing. We might make a Democrat out of you yet.
@AverageJoe1 saidTrump publicly said at least 53 times he'd end the Russian-Ukraine war in one day.https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/25/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-war
The list, derived from Chat, is a basic concept derived after much research and discussion by legislators. It , like everything, is always the best that they can do, and like everything is never perfect. You liberals speak of perfection a lot which does not exist. The worst example is marauder, wondering why Trump did not end the war in 24 hours. Life ain’t perfect.
...[text shortened]... ate few to receive that money when others received no money. Are you of that persuasion wild grass?
@wildgrass saidAll of you got me to a certain extent, and frankly, I am proud that you have ferreted that out. I sort of see it myself now, but yet I can only defend it by going back to the basic premise of subsidies which worked for many years to make this the greatest country in the world. Things have changed over the last four years, I’m sure you do not want me to get into that, but it appears to me that the powers that be have no recourse, but to shore of our economic problems by making big changes which of course affect the subsidies which have served us well over the years. This very general answer will probably not assuage your attacks!
lol. It's on the record now. AverageJoe supports government investments in clean energy and education.
I like your premise, but I have to say in this busy world, none of us, except for maybe Sonhouse, can spend hours on the detail of all this when, frankly, it is not that entertaining. I am not of a mind to sit down and work on the economics of the USA. Like I like to say, I have not been in the room. ! This little forum, regardless of our different positions on what goes on in the financial sectors of our government can hardly affect same . But carrying signs to the capital steps about the Somaleee, maybe we can affect that!
More interesting to see ICE get a few cases of handcuffs prepared for the Somalee!!! But alas, I wager they like Comey Brennan and the like will not be ‘ accountable’ Do you not Hate that empty word.
Walz. Accountability?? Ha
Anyway, good posts all around
@no1marauder saidPoliticians use rhetoric etc in campaigns. Why don’t you list the things that Biden promised. Or the lies of Obama. I Wanred To Keep Me Doctor!!!!!!!!!!!
Trump publicly said at least 53 times he'd end the Russian-Ukraine war in one day.https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/25/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-war
Zzzzzzzz
@AverageJoe1 saidI don't do "whataboutisms".
Politicians use rhetoric etc in campaigns. Why don’t you list the things that Biden promised. Or the lies of Obama. I Wanred To Keep Me Doctor!!!!!!!!!!!
Zzzzzzzz
Stop whining that I called out Trump for one of his many ridiculous claims. He made them, nor me.
@no1marauder saidIt is not a whatsoever it is a definition of politicians campaigning. Chill. The anger begins….
I don't do "whataboutisms".
Stop whining that I called out Trump for one of his many ridiculous claims. He made them, nor me.
@AverageJoe1 saidSo you drank yet another load of Kool aid. Trump just pukes out Somalis are corrupt and OF COURSE without the slightest bit of evidence you totally believe your Lord and Master Trump.
All of you got me to a certain extent, and frankly, I am proud that you have ferreted that out. I sort of see it myself now, but yet I can only defend it by going back to the basic premise of subsidies which worked for many years to make this the greatest country in the world. Things have changed over the last four years, I’m sure you do not want me to get into that, but ...[text shortened]... Do you not Hate that empty word.
Walz. Accountability?? Ha
Anyway, good posts all around
Tell me, how is your Trump shrine going? Got enough candles lit yet? How big is his statue?
@sonhouse saidThis one is saying they have found no evidence of the sumallee stealing’s billions of taxpayer money. Do you think other states should be required, under Socialistic/moonbus law, to give some of their taxpayer money to Minnesoottaa?
So you drank yet another load of Kool aid. Trump just pukes out Somalis are corrupt and OF COURSE without the slightest bit of evidence you totally believe your Lord and Master Trump.
Tell me, how is your Trump shrine going? Got enough candles lit yet? How big is his statue?
Answer please, Your lib friends wlll say ‘of course’. We are all brothers!!
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@AverageJoe1 saidYou beat around the issue. Do you support the list of government subsidized economic activities in your original post or not?
All of you got me to a certain extent, and frankly, I am proud that you have ferreted that out. I sort of see it myself now, but yet I can only defend it by going back to the basic premise of subsidies which worked for many years to make this the greatest country in the world. Things have changed over the last four years, I’m sure you do not want me to get into that, but ...[text shortened]... Do you not Hate that empty word.
Walz. Accountability?? Ha
Anyway, good posts all around
@wildgrass saidNone of us, without fully-deliberated study ( with backgrounds in engineering, agriculture, and medicine etc,) can ‘support’ any such thing. Me,,I don’t know.
You beat around the issue. Do you support the list of government subsidized economic activities in your original post or not?
Why ask such a question?
I dosuppoert subsidies as a tool to keep our economy running so that our grandchildren will find avenues to become successful. Ouch. Do such matter of fact, common sense statements, alarm, and make uncomfortable all of the liberals.?
After all how will you liberals meet your nefarious goals, when there is success all around you.? indeed on the short term, how will Mamdani meet his goals?
Did y’all ever get back to me when, after asking 15 times how much a millionaire should pay, not ONE weenie answer was given. So I threw out 57%. After paying another 23% for other taxes, the millionaire would pay EIGHTY percent in taxes. You fellers are not being fair are you. Punishing the millionaire. My my….