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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Oct '10 11:15
    If your looking for a political solution to the problems we face today, you'll have a very long search. Most politicans are only interested in 2 things:

    1. Gaining political power

    2. Keeping political power

    ...so don't get too caught up in the political process. 99% of politicans are just power hungry pigs, who wouldn't let a common citizen in there front door.
  2. 22 Oct '10 11:25
    What kind of solution do you suggest?
  3. 22 Oct '10 14:50
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    What kind of solution do you suggest?
    My guess is he wants us to stay at home on election day and let those in power remain.
  4. 22 Oct '10 14:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    My guess is he wants us to stay at home on election day and let those in power remain.
    Perhaps your vote for a Republican will break the status quo.
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Oct '10 19:59
    I'm not suggesting you stay home on election day. I am suggesting one uses all the resources at there disposal to accomplish there goals (whatever they may be). Being involved in the political process is admirable, as long as one keeps there expectations low.
  6. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    22 Oct '10 20:13
    I'm going to say that I think Bill718 is mostly (or at least partly) right. Political democracies were set up as simply being a more efficient means of maintaining the status quo than autocratic monarchies were. Instead of having the rich use brute force to put down peasant revolts, you now have electoral systems wherein the peasants get to vote in the manner of their own subjugation. The rich are spared the embarrassment of continually washing blood from their hands, while the peasants are given the illusion that their vote has the power to affect how the system is actually run.
  7. 22 Oct '10 20:29
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I'm going to say that I think Bill718 is mostly (or at least partly) right. Political democracies were set up as simply being a more efficient means of maintaining the status quo than autocratic monarchies were. Instead of having the rich use brute force to put down peasant revolts, you now have electoral systems wherein the peasants get to vote in the mann ...[text shortened]... are given the illusion that their vote has the power to affect how the system is actually run.
    I think there is much truth in this. Ike warned us about the military industrial complex and I don't think it did any good.

    I agree that we should not look to the government for solutions, you are the source for the solutions to your problems. This is the American point of view which is based on the individual. The government protects and provides a place where people can make of life what they choose to make of it.
  8. 22 Oct '10 20:44
    Originally posted by bill718
    If your looking for a political solution to the problems we face today, you'll have a very long search. Most politicans are only interested in 2 things:

    1. Gaining political power

    2. Keeping political power

    ...so don't get too caught up in the political process. 99% of politicans are just power hungry pigs, who wouldn't let a common citizen in there front door.
    That's democracy.

    H. M. Mencken described it as the election of jackals by jackasses.

    There's something in that.
  9. 22 Oct '10 20:47
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I'm going to say that I think Bill718 is mostly (or at least partly) right. Political democracies were set up as simply being a more efficient means of maintaining the status quo than autocratic monarchies were. Instead of having the rich use brute force to put down peasant revolts, you now have electoral systems wherein the peasants get to vote in the mann ...[text shortened]... are given the illusion that their vote has the power to affect how the system is actually run.
    Doesn't the surprise election of Tea Party candidate prove that the restless rabble have some say?
  10. 22 Oct '10 20:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    If your looking for a political solution to the problems we face today, you'll have a very long search. Most politicans are only interested in 2 things:

    1. Gaining political power

    2. Keeping political power

    ...so don't get too caught up in the political process. 99% of politicans are just power hungry pigs, who wouldn't let a common citizen in there front door.
    I actually believe that most politicians are actually decent people who want to do good things for their country. Or at least they start out that way.

    The problem is that the process of getting elected and staying in office requires them to be constantly begging for big donations and support from wealthy interest groups, and to be constantly in campaign-mode which means engaging in lots of phony spinning and grinning. And if they hope to remain in office, they really have little choice but to do the bidding of their puppet-masters.

    And in addition to essentially being forced to sell their soul to the highest bidder, anyone seeking or holding office can also expect an endless barage of negative attacks from opponents as well as disillusioned supporters. And all of this for the privilege of waiting for the planets to align so that you have an outside chance of getting a couple things on your wish list passed into law.

    If you really want to wield "power", start a business.
  11. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    22 Oct '10 20:58
    Originally posted by IshDaGegg
    Doesn't the surprise election of Tea Party candidate prove that the restless rabble have some say?
    The Tea Party will change nothing. Their anger toward government is sadly misplaced. The government is just the mechanism the rich use to control the populace. It's not necessarily that government needs to be destroyed, it's the control over government the rich wield that needs to be broken. But the Tea Party refuses to acknowledge at the role the rich have in making government dysfunctional.
  12. 22 Oct '10 21:08
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The Tea Party will change nothing. Their anger toward government is sadly misplaced. The government is just the mechanism the rich use to control the populace. It's not necessarily that government needs to be destroyed, it's the control over government the rich wield that needs to be broken. But the Tea Party refuses to acknowledge at the role the rich have in making government dysfunctional.
    Bilderberg group.
  13. 22 Oct '10 21:20
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The Tea Party will change nothing. Their anger toward government is sadly misplaced. The government is just the mechanism the rich use to control the populace. It's not necessarily that government needs to be destroyed, it's the control over government the rich wield that needs to be broken. But the Tea Party refuses to acknowledge at the role the rich have in making government dysfunctional.
    I share your expectation that little fundamental will change.

    However, the Tea Party phenomenon at least proves that people can be appointed to office against the wishes of the establishment.